In Cyclingnews, Psychologist Jef Brouwers, who treated Vandenbroucke since 2001, told Sporza:

French cycling doctor Bernard Sainz had a huge influence on VDB, a collaboration Brouwers didn't understand. "For me it was almost impossible to bring Frank back on the path of a full recovery. I never understood the link with Sainz. I don't know what Sainz did, but he got into Frank and you didn't get him back out. Mentally he had Frank in his power."

VDB was a troubled soul who did not deserve to pass away at such a young age.

Connections with the notorious Sainz cannot have helped any underlying medical condition. Doping cannot be separated from VDB's legacy, where he was the first to blame the EPO morphine and clenbuterol on his dog, and this is another doping-related cycling tragedy.

Dave.

Dave,

i may be alone in this but as far as i'm concerned, let him rest in peace.

they haven't even brought his body back to Belgium -- isn't it early to bring out the vultures?

let's have a little respect.

let him be buried.

I am certain you are not alone.

Dave.

I agree completely with the sentiment, but I think it *does* show respect to say that VdB seemed like basically a good guy who got caught up in a toxic culture of doping. This isn't disrespecting him; it's saying that we should all be outraged at the way that a cycling culture that refuses to change contributed to a young man dying far too soon.

Thx zeitgeist.

The thread may raise eyebrows. Apologies to anyone that is even remotely concerned or offended.

At the same time, this whole forum can be questioned (and is). Further, isn't there a consistent theme about the harm actually created to the specific individuals involved? Should we not discuss the early EPO use deaths? Should we just forget about any tragedies that are directly or indirectly related to doping?

Without any disrespect intended towards VdB, how does an elite professional cyclist who is still competing die of a pulmonary embolism at age 34?

Isn't there a problem with that? Should we discuss it or not?

Dave.

I think a few members may remember that my profile picture was an old picture of VdB sitting with the Taco Bell dog’s head pasted on with a caption “Yo Quero EPO”. I removed the picture once I was aware of the story of his death. I felt like the picture had no place on my profile considering this tragic ending of his life.

I also had a signature before this one that was a tribute to a running / racing / training partner who passed away this year at the age of 45. He died suddenly after doing a 6 mile training run. Without going into details there are things that he shared with me that led me to believe that it could have been a contributing factor in his death. Since his death It was confirmed that some “medication” contributed to his death. I will say no more about the “medication”. But I will say that I was the closest thing He had to family here in Houston and I wake up every day thinking about should we get together for a 10 mile run or maybe catch up after work at one of the many “Mens Clubs” here in Houston.

It is evident that many outside influences got their hold on VdB and he was not able to break the links. I feel horrible for his family and friends.

RIP VdB.

My 2 cents is that it is ok to discuss and still be respectful.

I agree. After all, we're really discussing (blaming?) the doping culture, not looking for character flaws in poor VdB.

OAR and others...DQ, JH, et al.,

It is ENTIRELY respectful to VdB to discuss his talent, his record, and the subsequent waste of his talent once unethical influences got their talons into his psyche. He was a charming and beautiful man, also a good athlete who had a star, a singular luminescence that pro cycling gets rarely.

That he is dead at 34 speaks volumes about the problems of this sport, either from body-breaking courses (and the training they require!) that sap the life out of these fine athletes, or from the drugs the athletes chose to take in order to win, to withstand the rigors of the sport, and to receive the fame and acclaim that WE give our heroes.

We see the news reports of the deaths and early 'retirements' -- dozens of times a year, not often with 'stars' like VdB or il Pirata, but with scores of young men and women in Cycling alone, who simply made a wrong turn, ethically and morally, at some point in their career. It is up to us NOT to ignore their sacrifice, their poor decision, their wrong turn.

I, for one, remain convinced that the PED problem is societal, and unlimited in scope. It occurs with 15-18 year old schoolchildren, with National team espoirs and juniors, with professionals, and in virtually every sport. The problem existed long ago, and I and several close friends can only thank God (or whatever you want to call it!) that in some moment of clarity, we decided to go the other way, to NOT make that wrong turn. It is pretty simple, really: Life was more important (in its long, long run) than temporary fame and fortune. If one doesn't have a grasp of that concept, then one is probably doomed to make bad decisions and potentially fatal errors.

Well stated DPCandND. There were plenty of recreational drugs where I grew up. There were also probably PEDs of one kind or another around. For whatever reason, possibly even naivete or the fortunate lack of good doctors with sophisticated training programs, I went a different route.

As a result, I have to admit that sometimes I am completely dumbfounded by all of this.

But I cannot buy into the proposition that an elite athlete dies naturally from this type of cause at 34. Age 34 for me was two cycling careers ago.

Dave.

Yes, a culture that the cyclists themselves have a big hand in shaping. Let's all get outraged by people choosing their profession and how they conduct it.

This is just a quick reply, if I have more time I'll respond later. Fear the pedant!

IF doping is a societal (and I think it is), in which young children are habituated to make the wrong choices, establishing courses of action that will govern their adult lives and moral decisions made at that time, then, yes, I do get outraged, or, better, since I am not an agry man, depressed, by news of this sort. VDB "chose" to dope, probably, IMO, whatever limiters I have to put on this kind of hypothesis, at a young age, probably young enough that he hadn't reached the age of consent, and surrounded by advisors who were pushing him the wrong way. Once he hit that path, 'nuff said, it's hard to go back.

That said, I sometimes wonder if I would have made the same decisions he made. Ask any elite athlete if they would take a prodcut which was banned, undetectable, would guarantee them 10 years of glory and fame of thighest order, but they would die at the age of 35? They'd take it. It's a system that they have a part in shaping, yes, but it's tragic nonetheless. just ask Achilles. Or anyone else who's made the glory choice when young. Oh, wait, you can't; they're dead.

-lochness

editing to add: Why is it that I get depressed by VdB's death, but just basically po'd by the lanceness? Maybe I see a distinction between the doping pioneers and the doping followers? Or maybe it's just that Lance is still enjoying his moment of koros, and hubris has yet to bring him down. or maybe Lance is like Agamemnon, with whom I've never sympathised, and VdB is like Achilles. Or maybe I'm just a hypocrite, and I'll be equally depressed if (when?) Lance develops an unusual hormonal condition that does awful things to one's body and is usually only found in lab rats and workers in vinyl factories.

Good point. There is an infamous survey conducted a few decades back that underscored this tomorrow doesn't matter assertion as fact for North American teens - well epitomized by an over the hill Mickey Rourke in The Wrestler.

Dave.

It's a pretty old story:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faust

I don't profess to know anything about Vdb's character, whether he was corrupted by unethical influences or saw an opportunity for fame and fortune and took it - not realizing what the consequences would be. It seems other posters here know his character better.

Decisions to dope seem to be made either cynically (wanting to get ahead) or reluctantly (doing what needs to be done) or without much thought (it's the culture). Some riders seem to be able to navigate all the tricky ins-and-outs of continuous drug use relatively successfully (Ullrich?); others struggle but manage to get out (Millar, Mentheour?); while others succumb tragically (Vdb, Pantani?).

Anyway, I think this thread is well worthwhile and timely.

Good one.

Anecdotally with all the recent trips to Germany, I have had the opportunity to become arguably the poorest student of German history and culture. Turns out that the only non-fictional location in Goethe's Faust is Auerbach's Kellar in Leipzig. Leipzig is also the home of the peace marches that were the catalyst for reunification.

I know that there is something redeemable hidden message about changing culture in the face of stern advsersity in that anecdote, but if ever in Leipzig the food in Auerbach's Kellar is excellent and you can find yourself in an important literary setting.

Dave.

[quote name='Kiwi' date='Oct 21 2009, 01:40 PM' post='160610']
It's a pretty old story:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faust

Yeah, I'd go even farther back: the tragedy of Achilles begins when Thetis (his own mother!) reveals to him that he can have a happy, long, anonymous life filled with riches and family, or "apthiton kleos" (undying reputation), and himself die very young. It's a hallmark of the Western world (I know jack about eastern ethics) that seeking honour or the acclaim of others is a good activity. meh. Maybe it is, and maybe it isn't; it sure as heck doesn't seem to be to retain its good characteristics when it gets blown out of all proportions, as if fame and glory were the ONLY thing worth seeking. That's the societal problem that I see modern culture propagating; it's ceased to be a matter of seeking acclaim to be good, but of seeking the approbation of others merely to exist. To be is to be observed. Throw youngsters and all their insecurities into this mix, give them access to drugs, and you've got a more lethal roostertail than pot belge. But I'm now griping about society, not about doping. nevertheless, I do think that any real solution to doping is going to have to take into account the need to change not just athlete's attitudes, or their traainers, but those of society at large. Good luck there. Then again perhaps sport, where the ideals of culture are played out in mythological detail as the dreams of a society, is a good place to start in an effort to change the insidious poision that's seeped into our culture...

Off to work!

-lochness.

Thanks for the tip. I'm big on the literary settings for traveling (and so is the missus); closest we made it to Germany, though, was a stopover at Frankfurt. Perhaps next time...

Which is saying a lot

The “first recorded drug related death in sports”{1} was of a European cyclist in 1886. The drug responsible for the cyclist was a “mixture of heroin and cocaine”{2} nicknamed the speedball. (aka Pot Belge)

Interestingly, or oddly, most of the former East Germany has relatively low tourist flow. Yet, like Leipzig (e.g. home of Bach..., costs nothing to walk into the church and listen to organ and orchestra rehearsals), there is a lot to see and do. Goethe's (Faust) and Schilling's Weimar also being high on the interest list. Much better (IMO) than Frankfurt.

Dave.

[quote name='D-Queued' date='Oct 22 2009, 03:11 PM' post='160668']
Which is saying a lot

The “first recorded drug related death in sports”{1} was of a European cyclist in 1886. The drug responsible for the cyclist was a “mixture of heroin and cocaine”{2} nicknamed the speedball. (aka Pot Belge)

Hmm...Arthur Linton?

-lochness.

I can highly recommend the Kafka Museum in Prague if you're into literature travel! It's got a host of interesting letters/excerpts from his writings and, best of all, this bizarro maze of filing drawers and optical mirrors, with the sound of typewriters resonating in the background. Really cool and fitting.

The city also features plenty of coffee houses he used to frequent to get into that vibe.

@ D-Queued: Frankfurt is pretty meh indeed, unless you're a businessman. Dresden is another really cool East-German city.

Hey, since we are waaaay off-topic, Dresden is very (!) cool. I probably spend almost a month a year there now, and there is a good bike rental place with some decent road bikes not far from the Zwinger. They have a good range of pedals as well. Excellent local riding.

For the literary tie-in, Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse Five is a must read for Dresden. If you had the chance go to nearby high-end watchmaking town Glasshute - the watch museum is fantastic and this was the last place bombed in the second world war.

Damn, though, I was in Prague last year and missed the Kafka museum.

Dave.

Thanks for the tip - I read Slaughterhouse Five but never really thought of the book when I was in Dresden.

When I was in Malta earlier this year I made it a goal to see some of the places mentioned in Pynchon's V. And found them too! But most old soldier bars/dancings have long since closed...too bad.