http://www.ctvolympics.ca/news-centre/news...rds+job+senator

Anyone got any info on who lead campaigns to add laws such as this in the countries that have them? I feel a letter writing urge coming on...

Edit, sorry, my subtitle was too long for the field. Should have said "border guards who find drugs not required to notify anti-doping authorities" Senator

Is this why Vancouver won the bid?

Yes, that is cynical... but funny? After all, Vancouver's own Prince of Pot just turned himself into US authorities.

Dave.

I agree with the Senator. I especially like this part:

"Border guards should be following Canadian law. If it is Canadian law to stop those drugs from coming in, then border guards should stop the drugs from coming in. But if they are not restricted from bringing the drugs in otherwise, I don't think it's the business of customs to [share information with VANOC]," he said.

"We have laws in place that govern how we treat people at the border. I think we should follow those laws."

I suppose you think the border guards should have a list of occupations and reasons for entering the country for specific individuals, a list of banned substances for athletics, whether legitimately held by the person with a prescription or not, and then notify a sports authority when something seems amiss?

Are you really serious?

Yes, it was border guards that instigated some of the incidents most important in the anti-doping effort, including Festina, Rumsas, and the Ukranians more recently I believe. But, the point of the post was to ask about how to get laws so that border guards don't ignore it here.

But that said, I'd bet there are bomb making plans that are legal, strictly speaking, to cross borders with, that are not ignored. Why couldn't border guards alert anti-doping authorities, even if confiscation and prosecution are not (yet, I hope) available to them?

i agree with the senator. i don't think border guards should be worrying about a figure skater with a box of sudafed.

Lister,

That's a horrible analogy.

The other problem is: How does the border guard become aware one is an athlete? What happens if this identification is erroneous? As Chris E asked, are we keeping lists of people now? Sounds very Soviet Union-ish to me. Sorry, can't agree with you here.

Actually it's an example, not an analogy, but again(edit: I take that back, wiki suggests comparisons can be analogies) it's not the point of the post. The question was, how did the countries that have laws enabling border agencies to search and seize doping materials get those laws?


Same way Euro border guards do?


You mean like no-fly lists, rendition and McCarthy? You're right, couldn't happen.

Red Herring. You can buy sudafed OTC in Vancouver. But, speaking of psedoephedrine, you can still easily acquire ephedrine, now banned in the US. In Canada, we issue 'health warnings'

Health Canada is reminding consumers not to use products containing Ephedra or ephedrine

But, at least one supplier provides the following product warning:

Not to be used as a precursor for any illegal products

Though they don't say anything about warning you not to use it in sporting competitions.

But, the good Senator appears to be following precedent from Turin to 'look the other way'.

The Italian government said on Monday it will be relaxing its strict doping laws for next month's Winter Olympics in Turin, much to the relief of the International Olympic Committee (IOC) and the World Anti-Doping Agency

Of, course that tempest in a teacup was prompted in large part by the NHL/NHLPA who didn't want to see their 'athletes' end up in Italian jails.

The National Hockey League does not list amphetamines as a banned substance. And the N.H.L. and the National Basketball Association do not conduct drug testing during the off-season.

Fortunately for Olympic Hockey fans, unlike the situation in Torino, the NHL is alive and well here in Canada. Whatever 'medicines' that the players might need are likely readily available in plentiful supply for those that have to cross the border. Thus, these athletes do not have to be carried in personal luggage across the border. After all

“Testing catches the careless and the stupid,” said Charles E. Yesalis, a professor of sports science at Penn State University.

Gary Bettman has successfully held off Balsillie. He should have no problem with Canadian border guards.

Dave.

It's a matter of priorities and evolution of human rights in modern society.

Doping in sports, for some of us, doesn't rise to the level of national security nor do some of us condone witchhunts. I say some because there are some worked up nutjobs in here. DQ for example, posts a bunch of crap that is irrelevant to my point.

What are you trying to say, Dave, in reference to this thread? Maybe you can summarize it for us slower Texas folks.

What you propose places much more inconvenience on me when I want to go to Canada and see Niagra Falls from the other side, as well as the logistic issues I pointed out earlier. For what? I get screwed with for awhile at the border so some speed skater may not be able to take something over the border he has a prescription for? Or, even if he is up to no good is a line a mile long worth that? Test them, and if they fail DQ them. Keep it out of my face.

I can appreciate your energy in being anti-doping but sometimes that fervor blurs our sense of proportion.

There is a certain duplicity here. We want our boarder guards to sniff out suspicious things and investigate them more and then pass that information on. They don't search everybody, but they do search some people. There is a difference between ordering the boarder guards to seek out athletes and make sure they aren't carrying drugs and the boarder patrol simply notifying other authorities if they happened to search someone that had drugs and they turned out to be an athlete.

I wouldn't suggest that we should ever divert their attention away from the more important tasks they have but if they happened to discover drugs on someone that happened to be an athlete, what's wrong with them passing that information on? Now it would also be up to the IOC or whatever organization to reach out and make it easy for that information to be propagated, I wouldn't expect the boarder patrol to bend over backwards to pass that information on to a non-receptive IOC.

If they aren't supposed to actually act on anything, then why not give Olympians a special reprieve from going through customs entirely? Seems worse, to me, if they happen to suspect an athlete of something, search them and find doping products and then just let them go on their way because it isn't national contraband. That just seems like a completely wasted effort that doesn't even serve a national security purpose.

You callin me out boy?

The point I was making was in counterpoint to Lister.

I applaud his sentiments and initiative. But, the recent precedent from the Torino experience was where, if anything, the host country relaxed its anti-doping laws to appease big sport and the IOC of all people. Of course, this was hardly a scandal - particularly as compared with the bribery of the previous Winter O's.

As for overzealous border security, I am sure that you will continue to find coming North a breeze. Almost certainly less of a hassle as compared to returning home. Even if we checked you for PEDs, you are still welcome in Niagara.

Like some of our Texas kinfolks, I do travel a tad. It is a pleasant surprise when I can go to to one of them thar red-leaning countries and the customs booth has a 'satisfaction' survey. Commies who care about customer satisfaction? Sure is getting hard to tell 'em apart these days. What is the world coming to?

But, my favorite line when 'crossin over' has been, "This is the United States, you must take your shoes off". Go figure. Maybe they think that is where we hide the peds (get it?).

On this last trip, I had to laugh when US and Canadian citizens got to use the fast lane, but Resident Aliens (Green Cards) had to go with the other 'Aliens'. Nope, I didn't let anyone know about the Green Card.

Yes, we should allow CAN Customs to advise WADA/VANOC if they find PEDS in duffles. Why not?

Dave.

To notify other authorities if they find drugs on an athlete still takes coordination, time, and information. I think that is unreasonable and not their job.

Why not extrapolate this a little bit and have border authorities call the place of employment of all people detained without a due process? Why stop at athletics? After all, I am an engineer and if somebody finds dope on me my company should be notified immediately due to the danger I may put the public in. A potentially drugged up engineer designing petrochemical plants is less of a danger to the country than a 10k runner knocking 5 seconds off their personal best with PEDs?

Or, the drug testing I do on a regular basis is the deterrent and the border authorities can do the job they are supposed to do. Same as the athletic entities take care of their own business when it comes to fair play within sports. I like that better, but then again I am a recovering libertarian who is slowly warming up to the world crisis that is doping in sports.

I'm not following how it is a wasted effort and serves no "national security purpose" if athletes without illegal products are let thru as you say in your last paragraph. This goes back to my point about losing sense of proportion; I don't think drugs in sport is a national security issue. Letting athletes thru if they carry nothing illegal, though on the banned list, is the athletic entity's problem. YMMV.

I think this issue is not black and white.

At first I tended to agree with Lister's concern. This is probably because much of the progress against doping has been the result of police/customs actions.

However, after reading the Senator's explications, I could understand his point of view in that the customs agents can't be expected to apply the WADA list of banned products to their searches.

What they can do, however, is ensure that athletes don't bring illegal (in the sense that possession and transport is unauthorised) into the country. I am not sure what Canada's rules are, but for example I am quite sure that it is illegal to bring EPO into France unless authorised.

What they shouldn't do it turn a blind eye to suspicous products that they may come across in order to appease the Olympic gods.

By the way I was totally revolted to see on the news "his highness" Samaranch supporting the Madrid bid for the 2016 Olympics. If he is involved in any way we can be sure there won't be any control on doping.

I think it would be unreasonable to punish them for failing to catch a doper. It isn't their job in that regard but I honestly hope that those people actually think during their work and make a reasonable effort to let some other party know some of the stuff they find. Like I said, in this particular case, I'd expect the IOC to reach out and make it easy for them to report that sort of thing. If WADA or the IOC or whomever doesn't care then that's a different thing. It just seems like it's a problem with the mechanism, what if the IOC paid them a bonus or something? Or some how made it extra easy to report. What if it was their policy to record the names and all the items in their possession, maybe take photos and then just put it in a semi-public record that other parties could then search through?



Well if they caught you with certain kinds of "dope," you would be detained, like coke or weed. And street drugs aren't exactly a national security problem either but they look for it. There are kinds of "dope" where you might be questioned and let go, perhaps you have Valium or vicodin without a prescription. Perhaps they note that, maybe you've got the wrong look about you and they want to ask more questions. Suppose I get searched and I've got all the ingredients to make a bomb or meth, legal stuff by itself but assembled in a particular way it becomes illegal, would you just expect them to search me, see this and wave me through? "Well, it's all legit, have a good day, and just so you know, don't mix any of those chemical together..." It's a difficult problem, I don't want them just arbitrarily expanding their duties and national security is their main job but if they had suspicions of something else, how hard is it to report that? Child porn isn't a national security problem but if they find it in your possession at the boarder, you'll probably be questioned more.



Well the search that found nothing illegal by the laws of the land is a wasted search. They find a guy, he's nervous, or whatever the cue is they look at that triggers a search, they find a ton of doping products but nothing illegal according to the nation so they send him on his way, what purpose does that serve? They invested the time, they did the search. They could have seen that he's an athlete and just gave him a pass. We could just do away with the searches entirely, have a metal detector and a bomb sniffer and make everybody walk through.

It has been their job and their practice in the past.

Canada Customs played a significant role in the Balco affair:

From the San Jose Mercury News

New drug may have BALCO link

"...Authorities found DMT in December 2003, when they arrested Canadian sprinter Derek Dueck trying to cross the border with a vial of the drug. Dueck also had a vial of THG and 70 vials of human growth hormone, a Canada Border Services Agency spokesman said Friday..."

Thus, I think the good Senator is blowing smoke.

Dave.

In "No country for Old Men" they just walked across the border no questions asked.

dang Canadians....

oops wrong border.

I haven't thought that one through, but on the face of it I don't have a problem with it. I would expect that the process would differentiate between recreational drug use (eg alcohol) and one affecting work. For example, pilots can drink, but only so many hours before they fly. But in sport, there is no justification for EPO, blood bags, or HGH.



And I still can't see why systematic cheating in an activity where you have to say you won't, before they let you in, which is the largest single draw of volunteerism (at least in Canada; more than 5 million adults volunteer in sport), and a major influence on children, (health and ethics), is somehow trivial.

You haven't commented on the laws in other countries (France, Italy, Spain) that address importation of doping substances and allow searches and charges. Are you saying these laws are fundamentally wrong?

Great find Dave. I sent it to Senator Kenny.

L

It helps to have one of them thar cattle guns.

Here is the math for you:

Wet back = Frost back.

Dave

[quote name='D-Queued' date='Oct 1 2009, 01:37 PM' post='160244']
Red Herring. You can buy sudafed OTC in Vancouver.

sorry dave, but if i'm going to travel to impoverished 3rd world countries like canada, i'm bringing my own allergy meds.

you never know what some canadian is liable to sell you.