From http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2008/...-le-dopage.html

I thought being successful at the Tour had less to do with the kind of drugs you were taking and more to do with proper training, diet, recovery and talent? Where have I been?

Sorry, Bodo, have to correct you there.

The man himself just told us that winning required a boring, robot-like style.

Dave.

niels obviously swings his bike wildly from side to side in eurostyle.

Yeah, there's no way a performance enhancing drug could help in a mere one hour event. Where's the smilie with the rolling eyes?

it's hidden under mr. 'pay me 12K yuros and i might show up and dare you all to beat me' saddle.

Are we supposed to know who this guy is? Ahem, Belgium hasn't even come close to winning a Tour in generations. That must mean all Belgians are clean. Hee hee. No wonder the "acting out" by Boonen.

if everyone's clean, someone has to win.

What's up with all the "who the hell is this guy? who the hell is that guy? are we supposed to know who this guy is?" line of questions when someone offers their opinion?

Is that supposed to serve as some sort of discredit to the rider? Well, if Lance has never heard of him, he obviously doesn't know squat...

Cyclocross World Cup leader. TdF stage winner. Yellow Jersey holder. I guess these are the sort of credentials that don't count towards cycling knowledge then? Your opinion is only valid as a doping expert if you've won seven or more Tours?

You have deduced a syllogism: No clean riders win Tours. Thus, all Tour wins are by doped riders.

I commend your admission!

Bad Karma?

googled
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=ht...sl=nl&tl=en

original here
http://www.sporza.be/cm/sporza.be/wielrenn...rijden/1.417496

Huh?

Very classy post

Hi bambi,

I think PdD was linking Gerdeman and Albert together, appropriately, as the reaction from the self-appointed Pharmstrong mouthpiece was the same. voiceofPharmstrong first spoke dismissively of stage winner and yellow jersey holder Gerdemann, and then did the same with double world cross champ (U19 and U23) Albert.

There is a pattern here. Trash-talking and speaking dismissively of only those riders who express concern over doping is a great way to promote the sport.

Dave.

Either you're with him or against him.

What surprises me is that Armstrong himself appears to feel obliged to do the trash talking, that doesn't do much for his image and certainly shows that the cancer message is a secondary priority at best.

It's time for a sequal to the miracle speech. I think many of the riders and the general public have forgotten some basic miraculous principles since 2005.


These are very wise words, almost too simple a theory to believe.

i make no representation that everyone is clean.

I didn't take it that way, don't worry.

I simply agree with the fact that if everyone is clean, someone still wins no matter what the average speed. It is possible to do the TDF without doping, this has been proven. So if the riders could get together and agree to all go clean together, there would still be a winner. This sounds like it should be simple to do, but in fact it is all but impossible.

Albert also said in that interview that it's possible to ride the Tour and finish it while riding clean. He just doesn't believe you can win it without resorting to illegal substances.

Either way: his view on doping in cyclocross may be a little optimistic (even though I tend to agree with him, personally), but to me it doesn't diminish the importance of riders speaking out about doping. Correct me if I'm wrong, but of the few (road) riders who've said similar things I have yet to see one getting busted. Not so with the throngs of Tour GC hopefuls who've tested positive in the past 5 years, claiming that there isn't/wasn't a problem and that everyone is exaggerating. So, a gratuitious remark by Albert? Perhaps. But unfounded in reality? Hardly.

As for the "who is Niels Albert" remarks...he's a rider who's merely 22 years old and one of the best 3 cyclocrossers atm. He shares his status as "the next big thing in cross" with Lars Boom who is slightly older and considered a supertalent on the road.

The cyclocross circuit shouldn't be underestimated...the top few riders make a lot more money than the majority of the road peloton. Their specific training limits them endurance-wise compared to road racers, but it's not rarely that they fly the flag in a pro road race during -what is to them- the off-season.

Just an example: the top 10 of the Belgian pro championship this season. Cyclocrossers in bold. This is a 250km race (!)

1 Jurgen Roelandts (Silence-Lotto) 5.56.50
2 Sven Vanthourenhout (Sunweb Pro Job)
3 Niko Eeckhout (Topsport Vlaanderen)
4 Greg Van Avermaet (Silence-Lotto)
5 Tom Boonen (Quick Step)
6 Kurt Hovelynck (Topsport Vlaanderen)
7 James Vanlandschoot (Mitsubishi-Jartazi)
8 Kevin Pauwels (Fidea Cycling Team)
9 Iljo Keisse (Topsport Vlaanderen)
10 Wouter Van Mechelen (Landbouwkrediet - Tonissteiner)


Not exactly the race of the season, I know, but I'm just saying: they're accomplished riders in their own right. Hardly untalented nobodies.

This may come a surprise to those who think the sport is only about one rider and one race but the sport is much bigger then one race in July and one doper who won it a bunch of times.



Some fans ascribe magical, almost mystical, powers to their favorite myths. Those who do not believe in miracles are struck down by their vengeful god.

Let this be a lesson, Gerdamen and Spitz are next to fall victim to the bad karma that comes from telling the truth.

Maybe it's not about doping after all, but the vengeful god at work all these years

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=new...ov08/nov17news2

Cedric Vasseur responds to Albert

Vasseur also responded to Niels Albert's recent comments on road cycling. Last week, the cyclo-crosser said that a Grand Tour could not be won "without the use of prohibited substances."

The CPA president clearly refuted this. "He is judging something that he does not know," he said to velo-club.net. "At 22 years of age, one is not very mature yet, ... but if you have a little bit of intelligence, you don't go off launching declarations like this one. If he has capacities in his discipline, he should recognise that other athletes have capacities in other areas. I never shined in a cyclo-cross but I competed and finished the Tour de France ten times. He should concentrate on his job rather than talking rubbish."
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=new...ov08/nov21news2

I find this response by Vasseur to be disappointing in its own way. Especially given Vasseur's role as CPA president. Fact is, one of the best cyclocrossers in the world at the young age of 22 is under the impression that the only way to win the tour is to use banned products. Is he alone in that sentiment, as a U23? And U23 riders who aspire to be tour champions one day, if they share this opinion will they be more likely to give a go at the hot sauce? Rather than suggesting that Albert is talking rubbish, why not recognize that such an attitude is itself a by-product of the culture of professional cycling, and see it as a opportunity for change. The quote, assuming it is correct, that "He should concentrate on his job rather than talking rubbish," just smacks of socializing/disciplining the young into the rule of silence.

'Course, Vasseur did wear the yellow jersey for five days in 1997, and was a member of the 2000 USPS Tour squad. Oh never mind.

What has cyclocrossing to do with road cycling? Has he competed in road cycling? How can you comment and/or blaime someone on something that you haven't even tried yourself?

Nice though that you reminded Vasseur was a member of USP Tour team, that year with USP apparently takes away all his credit in your eyes....
But you forgot to mention his other teams, which were:
1993–1994 Novemail-Histor
1995-1998 GAN
1998-1999 Crédit Agricole
2000-2001 US Postal Service
2002-2005 Cofidis, le Crédit par Téléphone
2006-2007 Quick Step-Innergetic

VDB can you set this hippy straight alstublieft

So Niels has rode the Tour?

I'm a hippy?

I don't follow cyclocrossing at all, sorry, not meant it to sound bad, but I have no idea what that sport is about...

Have you ridden the Tour? If not perhaps you are not in a position to comment.

The speed that the fanboys (and girls) attack anyone who remotely questions the myth or does not believe in miracles is impressive. The glee that they get from Alpert's ruptured spleen shows once again who the real haters are on this forum.

La réaction de ses collègues de la route ne s’est pas fait attendre. En effet, de nombreux coureurs ont tenu à réagir auprès du Président du CPA (Cyclistes Professionnels Associés) à propos des accusations portées par Niels Albert à leur encontre.



En tant que bon Président, Cédric Vasseur ne pouvait laisser dire une telle chose et a choisi notre site www.velo-club.net pour réagir.

Sure Vasseur had to react but he could have better words.

In the same time, Body Miller said something like that OOC doping control were to "intrusive", and useless because if an athlete want to cheat and not be caught he can do it!

Look at the list of winners/podiums of the past 20 Tours or so and compare it to the known/linked to doping list. Is there a Tour winner since Lemond (when I started following cycling) who hasn't been caught/admitted to doping or has a pile of evidence against him? Sastre, Indurain, maybe, are the only ones I can think of, and even those two have some question marks. Otherwise, it's Riis, Ullrich, Pantani, Armstrong, Landis, and Contador. Not a very convincing argument that one can win the Tour clean, based on that group. So is Niels really so far off the mark, based on who has won the Tour over the past couple of decades?

Wow, as soon as Cedric Vasseur--who is after all French and not a fanboy and had a falling out with Armstrong when he was not asked to ride the TdF so lets leave that whole piece out since it is irrelevant and wrong--as soon as he in his official capacity responds to irresponsible comments by a know nothing kid, you guys crawl out of the woodwork to criticize Cedric the Great. Wonderful!

It was really moving watching Vasseur, the early version of Voeckler, ride into the yellow jersey because of politics with I think Cipo in the jersey and other teams not wanting to chase or something, but of course he was on Gan then and I think the sport did have some problems then and Gan included...Vasseurs father had been a pro cyclist and was watching from the commentary booth as his son won the stage and recevied the jersey...so...jsut saying...he has street cred when it comes to knowing what it takes to ride and finish a grand tour.

Of course Vasseur is gonna be mad as well as the rest of the pro cyclists when this kid pops his mouth off to get his ten minutes of fame. Cyclocross is not exactly pure as the driven snow. I think I have posted a few times reliable sources that when US kids I knew went over there to participate in some world level CX races they came back and were 110% convinced all the euros were on the complete program as juniors and as U23 riders, so it is riduculous that a cyclocross rider would come out and say something ridiculous like he did.

How would a mud-crit rider even begin to guess at what it takes to ride a GT?
Most US domestic pros wouldnt know but would also be smart enough to say as much.

Vasseur I think is a pretty credible guy, which is why he was elected. Maybe his words werent chosen carefully but the kid spoke like a punk, and a stupid one at that. And Vasseur wasnt speaking for omerta, just for small time CX riders not taking potshots at their elders and superiors.

You really reckon Niels hasn't ridden and raced a road bike, eh? Don't know much about CX, you must not know much about the world of professional cycling. People race bikes on wooden tracks and mountains too. Doesn't matter, really because it has no bearing on what my critique actually was. Vasseur suggested Niels should just shut up. He's a young, and very talented bike racer who is under the impression that you can't win the tour with out dopage. I'm guessing he's not alone in that sentiment. It is unfortunate, sad even. Does the next generation of Tour winner believe that? Maybe, and maybe that belief will encourage them to enter the world of dope.

When the spokesman for the rider's union responds by saying, "do your job, shut up," that's a missed opportunity, because it is the attitude of bike racers in their teens and twenties that will shape the sport in the next decade.

And for what it's worth, his time at USPS affects his credit no more or less that his time at Cofidis or Quick-Step.

I know a kid that went to Belgium and he came back and said that everyone but the cyclists are drug addicts.

[q

If you are addressing me, that would be a queue of d's not a single q.

But since you q, can I q in return?

Isn't it great that whenever we send US kids over there, we can be confident that they would never, ever stoop to doping?



While all men are created equal, US kids are better. Must be the pledge of allegiance or something.

Dave.