Beats the guy he was supposed to lead out-- Forster.
Nice move.



Didnt anyone tell him to be more subtle?

And dont start with he's always had a good sprint crap, or he had good positioning (he had already attacked on the Champs 20 km earlier) blah blah blah


1 Gert Steegmans (Bel) Quick Step 3.51.38 (37.04 km/h)
2 Gerald Ciolek (Ger) Team Columbia
3 Oscar Freire Gomez (Spa) Rabobank
4 Robbie McEwen (Aus) Silence - Lotto
5 Thor Hushovd (Nor) Crédit Agricole
6 Julian Dean (NZl) Team Garmin-Chipotle p/b H30

7 Stefan Schumacher (Ger) Gerolsteiner

8 Robert Förster (Ger) Gerolsteiner
9 Leonardo Duque (Col) Cofidis - Le Crédit par Téléphone
10 Robert Hunter (RSA) Barloworld
11 Erik Zabel (Ger) Team Milram

Hombre, loathe though I am to sling mud without something in the way of evidence, I agree with you- to a point. I think that Schumacher's many and varied brushes with sanction do not paint a pretty picture. These, rather than his performance per se, are the reason I don't trust him. I did not want him at the World Champs, either.

I don't think that getting seventh on the Champs Elysees is a sign of doping, as you do. But I think it's a sign that he's rubbing our noses in it. He had been riding at a very high level for a couple of years. If he is doping, he has been doping for years. The fact that he can, as a mature athlete, dominate a Tour 50km ITT and sprint with the best doesn't, of itself, mean he's just discovered dope. Maybe he's just weighing his food and spinning faster these days.

Clearly he is on something - otherwise he'd have been doing the sensible thing and leading out Haussler. Foerster would be lucky to come round Cadel Evans the way he's been riding this tour. I can't believe I'm posting about Haussler doing well. Strange days . . .

History shows us that he has always had a good sprint, and if you look at the TV footage he was also very well positioned.

I'd heard his heart was two and a half times bigger than normal.

i think the lab screwed up.

Maybe he has a Ferrari, like his better-known namesake

In CN's update on Gerolsteiner they mention that Schumacher is said to have an offer from...Garmin!

Gulp.



Let's hope Tour success and desire for more doesn't lead JV to get squishy on his principles.

But, adding Schumacher would move Garmin from having arguably the best team of ITT riders to having far and away the best team of ITT riders. Goodness, Zabriskie, Schumacher, Millar, VdV, Pate . . . .

Lance, Ullrich, Rominger, Indurain... ?

Dave.

Or, it could be that he's a good racer and reads the finale well - much like a Bettini or Valverde, who can (and do) duke it out with the pure sprinters when they choose to... completely outside of any allegations, as I've said before, there's no dope that makes you a smarter racer....

Don't remember which team boasted all those TT powerhouses but that must have been one fine team! (In addition to same team, I also meant current team, and am guilty of forgetting that little word).

I just thought your post was kind of funny, and that TT powerhouses are, well, sometime a little bit tarnished?

...as for a team... start with LA... throw in an occasional FL, TH...

Dave.

and now he might be going to Garmin!!

You might draw a parallel with Vino in 2005. He performed very well in both ITTs, finishing behind Z and Lance in the opener, and behind Lance and Ulle in the final long one. He pulled off an astonishing attack at the end of stage 6, caught a breakaway rider, and would have won the stage if he hadn’t had to swerve to avoid that rider when he went down. About a week later, he won a stage on a breakaway. He did have his usual bad day in the mountains, knocking him out of podium contention, but aside from that he was with or close to the elite on most of the climbs. After all that, he still had enough gas in the tank to win—no seventh place here—the final stage in Paris—against all those sprinters, not to mention the whole Gerol team, which watched Vino catapult over their man Levy into the top 5.



Be patient, it's coming.

History would suggest that they first need to find some dope that makes you a smarter doper...

Schumi's rides really were the stand-outs of the Tour.

In these sensitive times, anything 'out of the ordinary' must be grounds for suspicion. Perhaps he was on the suspicious profiles list?

Still, with the new 'clean' peloton, either new star emerge (VdV, Kohl) and do better, or dopers become more obvious. Take your pick.

Let's hope Tour success and desire for more doesn't lead JV to get squishy on his principles.

good wine is expensive.

Is this a joke i don't get, am i blind or is the article changed?

Can't find it

I read all the articles on the page, and it only said that Garmin was now sponsoring the Tour of Germany, not that Schumacher had a contract offer.

If it was there, it's gone now. Could've been misreporting, or they might not want that out yet.

I said that like 4 posts up concerning this.. is there an echo in here??

Cyclingnews changes articles a lot. Earlier today the article said Garmin was interested in Schumacher (Katyusha also). Now that paragraph has been cut down to a single sentence saying Schumacher should have little difficulty finding a team. Maybe someone at Garmin and/or Katyusha didn't agree with the statement.

I disagree. For instance, don’t the brains consume a chunk of oxygen? Boost your oxygen intake; more power to the brain.
Or, to put it differently, doesn’t exhaustion compromise lucidity of thought? Decision making? Sift some PEDs into that body, and you clear the way for the optimal instant decision to be made (ok) for that brain. Not saying that PEDs make you smarter per se but, since stress and exhaustion seriously compromise ones mental judgments (as often happens to riders) using PEDs could actually make you relatively smarter under those conditions.

I love to be wrong but will say it will be a million years before Garmin gets Schumi.
If I am wrong, then it puts a different light on his rides.
Nah, no chance I am off here.

Vaughters must do deep background on the riders he selects.
I wonder how it gets done.
If he gets to see the passport.

And what if during one of these deep background checks on a rider he was considering hiring it came to light the guy roomed, trained, ate, drank, socialized and was best friends with a doper? What are the odds that a guy struggling to get a pro contract while riding clean in a dirty peloton, in that situation, could be trusted to be clean?

Vaughters strikes me as no different than Bob Stapleton. Here no evil, see no evil, and don't go pokin' around too much in search of it either. There was Stapleton carrying on about all their anti-doping nonsense at T-Mobile, while hiring Gonchar/Honchar, failing to bother investigating the team doctors, failing to do any serious due diligence, and stepping up to hire Armstrong's right-hand man the second he came available. Better to create an internal pre-test screen to ensure nobody's going to embarrass the outfit and get busted. And so long as they're clean on the screen, then not much else matters. If there's a way out there to dope while testing clean, so be it. Just don't risk ruining the image. And don't screw up and get caught. Same as it ever was. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

Heck, everyone seems to have forgotten, Vaughters had exploratory talks with FLL, and signaled that if Landis managed to wriggle off the charges, he love to hire him.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=new...jan07/jan21news

Vaughters didn't need to do "deep background" on Landis to know the score there. He already knew it. He knew how the USPS program worked, how the stuff was smuggled in, that Landis was ticked at Lance for flushing his goods down the toilet to spite him. And yet he was in exploratory talks?

He'd hire the guy. His name is Dave Zabriskie.

But, in fairness to Vaughters, florida, the same article you cite quotes him thus:



I think JV's attitude is more one of "forget the past; this is how you ride NOW." I think more than a few of his guys might have dabbled in the dark arts pre-Slipstream, but I have much confidence -- though no guarantees -- in their current cleanliness. My guess, knowing what little I know, is that there are a lot of riders who doped because they "had to" but are pretty psyched to get off the hot sauce.

Schumi certainly did his best to stand out in the tour this year. His climbing was ok ..... limited his losses but no where near the top guys ......his TTing was great .... two stage wins but not by huge margins as another rider used to do..... so I don't think he can be faulted too much there.

His sprint on the last stage. Ok .... he got 7th. Is someone here going to tell me that he took something that miraculously made him much faster in a sprint. I'm sorry I don't buy that one. You don't just suddenly develop extra horsepower. You can sprint or you can't. It is not like EPO would help a sprint. Steroids during a training block yes but at the tour ..... I don't think so ..... how do you get away with something like that.

I think Schumi just had a great tour. I am sure he was tested plenty of times so we will no doubt find out if there was something funny going on.

Otherwise I say great ride by Schumi.

Thanks,

Buddy

Filipo, I agree. Florida, I think that nuanced litle position put by filipo is one the riders didn't get either. Pretty sure they thought the score was exactly what you said. It was only at the time of Sinkewitz' bust that the T-mobile boys realised it was "for real for real". I think a few who have closer ties to national federations still don't get it, but that's just my suspicion, so is neither here nor there.

Florida, I think you're exactly right about the "clean on the screen"; I think that's why Rogers didn't ride the Tour. The only sin from the past worth mentioning is one that might damage the brand now. Whether or not Rogers was on that little convoy to Freiburg, the risk to Stapleton was a little too much to have, especially with a brand new sponsor on board. Wouldn't be surprised to see him ride elsewhere next season.

I think you are drawing a long bow with regards to Rogers. There has been no proof to my knowledge of his involvement with the Freiburg clinic or any other doping for that matter. From memory I think it was said that not all T Moblie tour riders went to the clinic.

The fact that Rogers hadn't recovered sufficiently from glandular fever to allow sufficient recovery during the tour is certainly a more logical reason than the one you prescribe. I have a swimming daughter who is still affected two years after a bout of glandual fever. I was surprised to see Rogers even racing pre tour.

Obviously he didn't think he was well enough recovered to take on the most arduous of sporting events and do justice to both himself and the team.

Thanks,

Buddy

Maybe he took his inspiration from Barney Riis who expects his riders to give no less than 60%.

Schumi almost climbed as well as Voigt and Cancellara!

He was racing well enough to get 13th in the Dauphine in his second race back.

He was racing well enough to deny that he was unfit for the Tour (quoted in the Canberra Times) after Rolf Aldag had already said he was not fit enough to race.

From that , it's clear that it was a team decision, not Rogers' own. The "unfit" story does not make sense.

So why did he not ride? Why did Stapleton not want his best GC rider, who was riding into form, in the Tour?

He was on the same team as Sinke in Quickstep and at T-Mobile. This was the 2006 Tour team:

21 Andreas Klöden (Ger)
22 Giuseppe Guerini (Ita)
23 Serguei Gonchar (Ukr)
25 Eddy Mazzoleni (Ita)
26 Michael Rogers (Aus)
27 Patrik Sinkewitz (Ger)

Rogers may well not have been on that convoy to Freiburg. I absolutely agree there's been no proof of any doping with Rogers, at Mapei, Quickstep, T-mobile or High Road. That's why he's still competing. (I recall Millar having said words to the effect that Rogers was clean in the 2003 WC ITT). But I am saying that there's a risk he was doping: Sinke has admitted to team sponsored doping. Look at that team again. In my view, Stapleton didn't want to take the risk, regardless of the truth. I also wonder if Aldag has now let Stapleton know exactly what went on at T-mobile during his time there.

I think that's now debatable. I might have said so at the beginning of the year, but Kirchen has really done well again this TdF - exceeding my expectations - not sure what those of Aldag etc. were.

Rogers' ride in the Dauphine was alright but proved he was still quite a bit short of full fitness - and a GT is a lot more stress for an underprepared rider. So regardless of what Rogers claims, I think there was a reasonable question over his fitness. Rogers might have started had the team set-up differently - but they've set up with mainly a sprinters squad supporting Cavendish. That's not proved to be the wrong decision.

I think we'll see him start in Germany. While Columbia has moved their registration to the US there is still a large German emphasis on the team - so the Deutschland Tour is an important race for them - and this year it has moved almost a month later to overlap with the Vuelta. It will be difficult for Kirchen to hold his form till then so I suspect we'll see Rogers leading the GC line there.

Can't find the article. Got a link? This is the closest I can find: link, but the title doesn't bear out its contents. This article refers to Rogers not having ruled himself out, but doesn't quote him and may be referring to the earlier article.

Two points: first, it's clear it was a team decision; secondly, the important factor is said to be about Rogers' Olympic preparation.

Your point may well still be a good one; I suspect it is. But I don't know whether Rogers has been imprudent enough to be quoted as saying he was fit enough to race, when Aldag was saying something else in Germany and then, after presenting as a decision still be made, in Australia also. I wonder if Rogers might have briefed his local paper to the effect that he wanted to race, though... who knows?

I can't find the link, Drongo. This link shows that it was a team decision though:

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/local...nce/798855.aspx

Even if Kirchen was stronger, having Rogers' help in the mountains would have given Columbia a real boost.

I know what the story was, Drongo. I just don't buy it. I like Rogers, and wish him well - he's attacking when he can be, tough as nails, and seems to be a good egg. I do wonder if his future is best on Columbia or elsewhere.

Edit - cross referenced article referring to Franke's information - [http://www.bicycle.net/2008/doping-expert-werner-franke-wants-t-mobile-investigation-stepped-up]

Option .... I think you are still underestimating the effects of glandular fever. Sure Rogers did well to finish 13th in the Dauphine however what was his recovery like during and at the conclusion of the race.

The Dauphine is a lot different to doing the tour and the team would not want to take someone they thought could not go the distance. Nor would Rogers really want to put in a poor performance which could also have severe health repecussions if not fully recovered.

Let him keep training ... go to the Olympics ......win a gold in the TT then off the the Vuelta and have a crack at that. I see that as the most likely reason .... not the sinister one you are proposing. Well lets scrap that bit about the Vuelta. I didn't realise High Road (Columbia) hadn't been invited. So he will have to target the tour of Germany perhaps.

Thanks,

Buddy

That is the pragmatic attitude, and quite frankly - if you're a DS in this business, I would think you'd have to be pragmatic.

You can never guarantee that a rider whom you are signing has never doped before. Dig long enough, and you'll no doubt find some unsavoury rumor about every rider... or some dubious friendship... or something. As a matter of fact, the DS doing the signing has no doubt himself dabbled in the "dark arts" in his career at some point.

The only thing you can (hopefully) ensure is that he is not doping while riding for you.

As long as a rider is good (and Schumacher is that), fits within your team, and is not in some obvious kind of doping trouble... then why wouldn't one sign the person?

Regardless what everyone thinks of Schumi, you've got to rate him as one of the top 5 riders to win the Olympics Road Race and/or ITT. Would be pretty awesome if he could pull of the "double."

Wow, check these comments out on Schumi by fellow German, Andreas Kloeden, as taken from CN's website.



This from someone likely to ride in support of Schumi at the Olympics and/or World's road race. Not exactly a glowing endorsement - especially from someone that still hasn't completely evaded the shadows of doping allegations himself from last years T-Mob Tour Team. Is this a case of the pot calling the kettle black?

Read full article here.

He would certainly go in as a favourite given his tour ending form. The Olympics course in meant to be quite selective too and Schumi's performance on the tour climbs could only enhance his chances.

Thanks,

Buddy

Schumacher is so obviously on the wrong side of the tracks. Burst onto the cycling scene a few years ago on a second-rate team after being dropped by T-Mobile for lack of promise, had a few "near-misses" in the past when it comes to doping, and now he suddenly turns into a world-class TT'ist at the Tour and, even when going on several monster mountain breaks, he didn't seem to become any weaker towards the end of the Tour (quite the contrary even).

Seriously...even if he doesn't get busted, credibility = zero.

Well, if JV did sign Schumacher, maybe it would answer questions about his 'extraordinary' Tour ride.

JV might hire riders with troubled pasts but would presumably not touch someone currently on the sauce. The risk would simply be too great as a positive dope result would kill the team dead.

If JV was prepared to take Schumi on, he must be clean! I have my doubts that he will, though.

That must make Schumi just like Basso then.

Dave.

I wouldn't agree. Basso wasn't acquitted of doping... his case was shelved for lack of evidence. That made Basso a ticking bomb... Schumacher's past is not likely to come back to haunt a team that hires him.

You missed the point. Basso was hired when it was pretty clear to all that he was heavily implicated in doping. The whole I did/I planned to just for the Tour admission came much later.

Dave.

No, I didn't miss the point; you did.

Stefan Schumacher is not heavily implicated in doping; unless you know something about the cases raised against him that I don't.

Let's see

hereand here

are two good articles about Schumacher and doping.. there are many more of course..

Show me the disciplinary cases that have indicted Schumacher of doping.

Schumacher is among my least favorite riders, but speculation in the media and the suspicion of fans does not make a rider "heavily implicated in doping". And while driving under influence of drugs is despicable, it does not prove doping either.

Wikipedia:

Schumacher has been involved in a series of controversial incidents during his career. He was implicated in a doping case in 2005 when he tested positive for an amphetamine. His mother, a doctor, had prescribed an asthma medication after failing to find it on the World Anti-Doping Agency's list of banned substances, and checking with the appropriate Dutch agency. He was cleared by the German cycling federation of a doping offence.
In 2006 Schumacher, now riding for Team Gerolsteiner, won the Eneco Tour of Benelux by one second after colliding with his main rival George Hincapie in the closing metres of the final stage, when time bonuses were available for the leading finishers. Schumacher claimed he had collided first with a spectator and the race jury accepted his story.
Following his third place in the 2007 world championships in his home town of Stuttgart, Schumacher was arrested for drunken driving. Four months later he revealed that the blood test taken at the time of his arrest had shown traces of amphetamines, whilst denying that he had knowingly taken drugs or had any knowledge of how the positive test had come about. Since a rule change in 2004 amphetamines were no longer on the WADA's out-of-competition banned list; as a result the German federation again exonerated him.

cyclingnews: He podiumed witha Hematocrit OVER 50!?!?!?!?

Schumacher underwent an unannounced out-of-competition doping control shortly before the World Championships in September, and showed questionable blood values. He claimed that they were due to a severe case of diarrhoea. He went on to finish third in the Worlds road race.

At a press conference Monday, he presented documents from the Institute for Biochemistry at the University of Cologne. The blood test from September 25 showed a hematocrit of 50.5 percent. A value of over 50 percent is usually considered an indication of the possible use of the forbidden product EPO and entails a two-week ban on riding for the protection of the rider's health, but the UCI and the German federation allowed him to ride. A urine test made one and a half weeks after the World Championships was negative.

Schumacher's attorney, Michael Lehner, noted that there would have been no reason to suspend Schumacher, since his haemoglobin value was 16.9 percent, and it must be over 17 percent to entail a suspension. He criticized the national anti-doping agency for publicizing the case and violating his client's privacy. "The Schumacher case should have been closed after the NADA [German national anti-doping agency - ed.] took one single look at the blood values. It is irresponsible to make such things public," he said.

To support his claim that the blood values were caused by dehydration caused by the diarrhoea, Schumacher presented studies which supported his claim. He further claimed that the NADA did not follow the UCI's standard procedures when conducting the tests, as they were taken outside the standard times imposed by the UCI.

Like, after retirement?

Dave.

Good call!


Hmmm. Any word from Lefevre yet?


Yes, a whole lot like Valverde!!!

You know, since Hombre's brought this post back up (and I've once again decided to fritter my precious time with bs cycling), I have to say I think Kloden, while once fully on the sauce, has given it up. I could go into why, but meh. End of the workday.