New Info About Landis Hacking Case, No Evidence Directly Linking Baker To The Hacker Options

[Surftel]

Have you not been paying attention? No such summons was delivered. That the main point of my posts over and over. (source here is not only Baker by the French court confirmed this as well by calling it a "national warrant.")

What he has to hide is many thousands of dollars in his bank account that a trip to France with a national arrest warrant would cause him to lose. Maybe if you write him a check for his legal and transportation fees for such an undertaking, he might consider it. 30k to 50k is what it will probably cost.

Again, Arnie has offered to talk under the Treaty and said so last November. Why are the French so uninterested in following their own rules (the Treaty they signed with the US)?

It appears you have not been paying attention.

Arnie has admitted receiving a summons. You have no basis for your claim that it was filed improperly, even Arnie has not claimed this. The 50K number you quote is your invention, and like most of Landis' case it has no basis in reality.

[frenchfry]

Then go to San Diego and question them or start extradition proceedings to get them to France.

Since neither has happened it seems like the French are not interested in what AB and FL have to say. Instead Bordry makes stuff up to tell reporters.
I was just going to say that Surf's rationale means Vaun should also have an "international arrest warrant" from the French too to get our real names to question us. Those documents were available on this site and I took them from this site and emailed them to a friend. I speak English, I contributed to the FFF, maybe I financed it!

Once again you are totally off the mark. The entire French nation has united in a massive effort to run Floyd and Arnie into the ground. Each and every French citizen has rehearsed their role in this, Bordry is only one of 60 million participants.

Luckily you are there to save the day for truth and justice!

[Old Runner Guy]

It appears you have not been paying attention.

Arnie has admitted receiving a summons. You have no basis for your claim that it was filed improperly, even Arnie has not claimed this. The 50K number you quote is your invention, and like most of Landis' case it has no basis in reality.

Yes it is an invention as I have not tried to hire a French lawyer that specializes in defending foreigners in computer hacking cases. But, I have hired lawyers in specialized instances in the past (including one in Switzerland) and I have a vague idea of how much they cost. And, in thinking about it again, I could be low.

You seem to not understand what a summons is. When the police deliver a summons to your door you do not say "Tell the judge to come talk to me"

Why doesn't Arnie go to France? What does he have to hide?

Ummm .... that is exactly what you can do when you an American in San Diego and the "police" are French. Their is a treaty that lays out the limitations of the French in this case. He has rights as an American citizen and one of them is to follow the treaty and request the French come to him and waste their money.

Are you suggesting he give up right as a citizens and blindly fly to France and get thrown in jail?

This post has been edited by Old Runner Guy: Feb 23 2010, 12:28 PM

[Ali]

... Are you suggesting he give up right as a citizens and blindly fly to France and get thrown in jail?

I think that's exactly what he's suggesting.

Clearly, despite the personal suffering that Landis has endured as a result of this case, Surftel does not yet feel that he has received his pound of flesh.

It's not good to wish such misery on another person, especially one who has never directed harm at you ... Bad Surftel !

[Surftel]

I think that's exactly what he's suggesting.

Clearly, despite the personal suffering that Landis has endured as a result of this case, Surftel does not yet feel that he has received his pound of flesh.

It's not good to wish such misery on another person, especially one who has never directed harm at you ... Bad Surftel !

So you are saying that because Landis lied for 4 years that he should be allowed to employ a hacker to hack the LNDD computers? You do have a strange moral code.

Arnie does not appear to have been effected much by their four year fraud, shouldn't he go?

Yes it is an invention as I have not tried to hire a French lawyer that specializes in defending foreigners in computer hacking cases. But, I have hired lawyers in specialized instances in the past (including one in Switzerland) and I have a vague idea of how much they cost. And, in thinking about it again, I could be low.
Ummm .... that is exactly what you can do when you an American in San Diego and the "police" are French. Their is a treaty that lays out the limitations of the French in this case. He has rights as an American citizen and one of them is to follow the treaty and request the French come to him and waste their money.

Are you suggesting he give up right as a citizens and blindly fly to France and get thrown in jail?

It is good that you at least admit that Arnie and Floyd are hiding out in San Diego in order to avoid prosecution for their crime.

The righteous have nothing to fear.

[Velo]

Are you suggesting he give up right as a citizens and blindly fly to France and get thrown in jail?

So we can assume, then, that from this point on, if a foreign national wanted for questioning with regards to a crime committed in the US refuses to come to the US, you will support that? Like, say, Roman Polanski? Or does that sympathy only apply to Americans, or more precisely, an American cyclist that you happen to be a fan of?

An arrest warrant is an arrest warrant, doesn't matter if it's the French issuing one for an American like Landis or the US issuing one for someone in France, like Polanski, nor does it matter what the crime involved is.

[Old Runner Guy]

So we can assume, then, that from this point on, if a foreign national wanted for questioning with regards to a crime committed in the US refuses to come to the US, you will support that? Like, say, Roman Polanski? Or does that sympathy only apply to Americans, or more precisely, an American cyclist that you happen to be a fan of?

An arrest warrant is an arrest warrant, doesn't matter if it's the French issuing one for an American like Landis or the US issuing one for someone in France, like Polanski, nor does it matter what the crime involved is.

Polanski and Marc Rich ... the Swiss refuse to extradite them, and the U.S has asked. That's how the system works. With FL and AB they have not asked for extradition. The French are not following the rules by asking for extradition or going to San Diego to interview them. All we have is Bordry whining in the press.

Difference also is Polanski is wanted for a crime (statutory rape) and Rich is wanted on tax evasion (largest in American history). Are you camparing this to refusing to appear for questioning? Do you treat family members busted for speeding the same as rapists?

[MacRoadie]

Are you suggesting he give up right as a citizens and blindly fly to France and get thrown in jail?

But you keep telling us there is a treaty in place that will prevent that from happening, right?

[Velo]

Difference also is Polanski is wanted for a crime (statutory rape) and Rich is wanted on tax evasion (largest in American history). Are you camparing this to refusing to appear for questioning? Do you treat family members busted for speeding the same as rapists?

Last time I checked, hacking into a private computer network for the purpose of stealing documents is a crime as well.

This post has been edited by Velo: Feb 23 2010, 04:57 PM

[Surftel]

Polanski and Marc Rich ... the Swiss refuse to extradite them, and the U.S has asked. That's how the system works. With FL and AB they have not asked for extradition. The French are not following the rules by asking for extradition or going to San Diego to interview them. All we have is Bordry whining in the press.

Difference also is Polanski is wanted for a crime (statutory rape) and Rich is wanted on tax evasion (largest in American history). Are you camparing this to refusing to appear for questioning? Do you treat family members busted for speeding the same as rapists?

I just finished a biography of Marc Rich, "The King of Oil". As usual you have no idea of what you are talking about. The book goes into detail of how the Swiss were willing to hand over Rich and helped the US investigation. It has interviews with the key Swiss and American law enforcement. It fell apart due to the Americans, not the Swiss.

[D-Queued]

... The French are not following the rules ...

Hmmm. Ok, you admit that you contributed to the FFF. Are you sure you didn't author the site?

Dave.

[Old Runner Guy]

Are you sure you didn't author the site?

What does this mean?

[D-Queued]

What does this mean?

It means that your hyperbole about following rules sounds exactly like it came from the FloydFairnessFund site itself.

The nice thing about the Intarwebs is that if you post it, it is there forever even if you take down your site:

From WayBack Engine:

ADOs: Follow Your Own Rules
USADA: Follow Your Own Rules
WADA: Follow Your Own Rules

Yup, that is a lot of hyperbole. What is really required here is simple: Floyd, follow the rules!

In fact, perhaps we should promote a letter-writing campaign to Congress to encourage them to prosecute Floyd should he continue his campaign to avoid following the rules. Here is the link from the FFF site: http://web.archive.org/web/20070123012608/...e.gov/writerep/

Everyone should be encouraged to write their member of Congress to advise them about what a rule-breaker Floyd is, how he continues to damage the sport, and even the world's perception of US justice and fairness, and that he is way past his three strikes.

Please note that I still strongly believe in the mission statement for FFF

1. I do believe that Floyd should not be subject to unsubstantiated doping allegations. Particularly when there are so many substantiated allegations to worry about.

2. I believe that we should provide the means to achieve fairness for Floyd, even if that means encouraging him to go to France to face his latest accusers. And even if in so doing he finds himself incarcerated.

This also includes showing respect to those institutions that demonstrated conclusively that Floyd doped. In Fairness, Floyd should both acknowledge the doping to the cycling community and provide an apology for the overly aggressive nature of his approach. Floyd should further provide us with any and all occasions where he or those 'working for him' perpetuated a lie by using any portion of any document obtained illegitimately through this or any other hacking or illegal means and/or any use of any forged document in his PR campaign.

As Floyd himself stated on October 10, 2007 "Two wrongs never make a right." And we have been witness to plenty of wrongs - far more than two - that have been perpetuated by Floyd and his team.

3. I further believe that we should definitely bring justice to those responsible for misconduct in this case.

At this point, that would include Will, Arnie and Floyd himself for their (mis)conduct with respect to the Greg LeMond harassment and with respect to any involvement - even peripheral - in the hacking of lab and in the dissemination of documents from Arnie's computer masquerading as email from Cretin.

This also includes not responding to a summons or a warrant. While the doping case was merely about rules of sport, as there is as yet no sporting fraud laws that would apply, these other items appear to fall into criminal activity. Criminals should face justice.

With respect to the FFF site itself, I further believe that the conduct around raising money under - almost certain - false premises should further be investigated and that any misconduct should result in judicial action. Minimally, the FFF should provide a full accounting of receipts and expenditures.

Bottom line, Floyd needs to practice what he preaches and the FFF preached.

If you are going to suggest that the French, or anyone else, "follow the rules" please bear in mind that Floyd is a proven rule-breaker of the worst kind.

Dave.

This post has been edited by D-Queued: Feb 23 2010, 08:43 PM

[Old Runner Guy]

D:

I still don't know what you mean with this hysterical rant. I guess you want FL to admit he doped as part of a suicide letter.

see me post here
http://www.dailypelotonforums.com/main/ind...st&p=162480

[Ali]

... With respect to the FFF site itself, I further believe that the conduct around raising money under - almost certain - false premises should further be investigated ...

Dave.

Just "almost certain" ? Do I detect an element of doubt ... ?

I always suspected as much. Debating does not require belief in the stance you take and I never believed DQueud ... he always protested too much.

[D-Queued]

D:

I still don't know what you mean with this hysterical rant. I guess you want FL to admit he doped as part of a suicide letter.

see me post here
http://www.dailypelotonforums.com/main/ind...st&p=162480

That is not something to joke about in this case, don't you think?

Dave.

[MacRoadie]

Just "almost certain" ? Do I detect an element of doubt ... ?

No, you detect an intelligent man avoiding absolutes and hyperbole in favor of providing the FFF with a small benefit of the doubt as to what their premise (public or private) may have been in setting up the FFF in the first place.

I know, it's all new and confusing to you, but you'll come to appreciate rational thinking....someday.

[Surftel]

I still don't know what you mean with this hysterical rant. I guess you want FL to admit he doped as part of a suicide letter.

It is possible for Floyd to admit he was a doping liar without killing himself.

[DPCandND]

I live in San Diego County and would be glad to throw Arnie in the nearest jail of the DPF's collective choosing....the one I prefer is about 50k South of Ensenada...or in Mexicali...really not very nice places....
if only to preserve this lovely sport from the geekinoma that presents itself in every cell of AB's royal fredness.

Arnie would last about as long in one of those stinkholes as he would in a real bike race in Belgium, where he would be bouncing on his ruff in the gutter or on the grass within about 5 minutes of the start.

Kinda what Hugh Walton said to Bostick a long time ago.

Surf, DQ MR,...you guys are killing me here! Stop it! Really! I know THEY (Ali, ORG, etc.) don't think it is funny, but it is so obvious...and your take on this is making my sides hurt!