And another Austrian one, Another win for the law enforcement route Options

[Lister Farrar]

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/29...in-austria.html

[MacRoadie]

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/29...in-austria.html

The seized materials were made in China and Eastern Europe and allegedly were sold over the internet through middlemen in several countries including Britain, Bulgaria and Germany. Customers as far as the United States ordered from the network, the police authority said.

Maybe as far away as Sacramento, California?

[D-Queued]

Maybe as far away as Sacramento, California?

Who lives in Sacramento?

Dave.

[MacRoadie]

Who lives in Sacramento?

Dave.

The Austrian Oak, aka The Governator.



This post has been edited by MacRoadie: Nov 28 2009, 05:09 AM

[D-Queued]

Alois? aka Arnold Strong (funny parallel in that name)?

1974. "I take steroids because they help me an extra 5 percent. Women take the (contraception) pill. They are somewhat similar. I do it under a doctor's supervision."

1977: "Yes I have used them, but no, they didn't make me what I am. Anabolic steroids were helpful to me in maintaining muscle size while on a strict diet in preparation for a contest."

1987: "I don't worry about it, because I never took an overdosage."

1992: "In those days you didn't have to deal with the black market. You could go to your physician and just say, 'Listen, I want to gain some weight, and I want to take something.' Then the physician would say, 'Do it six weeks before competition, then it will be safe.' And that's what you would do. The dosage that was taken then versus taken now is not even 10 percent. It's probably 5 percent."

1996: "I used steroids. It was a risky thing to do, but I have no regrets. It was what I had to do to compete. The danger with steroids is overusage. I only did it before a difficult competition – for two months, but not for a period of time that could harm me. And then afterward, it was over. I would stop. I have no health problems, no kidney damage or anything like that from using them."

Dave.

[Steve in ATL]

Alois? aka Arnold Strong (funny parallel in that name)?

1974. "I take steroids because they help me an extra 5 percent. Women take the (contraception) pill. They are somewhat similar. I do it under a doctor's supervision."

1977: "Yes I have used them, but no, they didn't make me what I am. Anabolic steroids were helpful to me in maintaining muscle size while on a strict diet in preparation for a contest."

1987: "I don't worry about it, because I never took an overdosage."

1992: "In those days you didn't have to deal with the black market. You could go to your physician and just say, 'Listen, I want to gain some weight, and I want to take something.' Then the physician would say, 'Do it six weeks before competition, then it will be safe.' And that's what you would do. The dosage that was taken then versus taken now is not even 10 percent. It's probably 5 percent."

1996: "I used steroids. It was a risky thing to do, but I have no regrets. It was what I had to do to compete. The danger with steroids is overusage. I only did it before a difficult competition – for two months, but not for a period of time that could harm me. And then afterward, it was over. I would stop. I have no health problems, no kidney damage or anything like that from using them."

Dave.

So, IOW, he took steroids - legally - and he doesn't obfuscate about it.

Remarkable.

[D-Queued]

So, IOW, he took steroids - legally - and he doesn't obfuscate about it.

Remarkable.

Remarkable?

Bigger, Stronger, Faster... the movie... ?

The review

Anabolic steroids were first introduced to the US Olympic team, accidentally by a Russian coach, in the 1950s. Peanuts and vitamin C can be dangerous. Only three people have been known to have died as a direct result from using steroids. A physician speaks of a "benefit-to-risk ratio" when considering using any type of drug or engaging in a risky activity (such as bungee jumping, rock climbing, motorcycle racing, skydiving).

The media, with political enhancement, have unleashed a stereotype of "roid rage," similar to the "reefer madness" hysteria of the 1930s. Yet the government and the press haven't been able to avoid dishonestly presenting the issue as black and white: President George H.W. Bush signed the control act outlawing steroids (passed by Congress against expert recommendations not to associate steroids with narcotics) while naming Arnold Schwarzenegger, poster boy of steroids, chairman on the President's Council for Physical Fitness.

What really seems to bother Chris, John Romano, body-builder Greg Valentino (man with world's biggest, ugliest biceps), among others, is the apparent hypocrisy of idols like Schwarzenegger ("Work hard, play by the rules") and Carl Lewis (relying on a legal loop hole of "inadvertent use" to explain away a failed drug test) in misrepresenting themselves to the public by claiming to be what they aren't.

Arnie didn't really tell the truth.

Dave.

[Steve in ATL]

Arnie didn't really tell the truth.

Dave.

I don't see how the hypocrisy of saying "Play by the rules" (if it is indeed that, since Ahnuld never had any steroid rules to play against) and being placed on the President's CFPF is "not really telling the truth."

Maybe you have a different definition in Canuckistan?

[D-Queued]

I don't see how the hypocrisy of saying "Play by the rules" (if it is indeed that, since Ahnuld never had any steroid rules to play against) and being placed on the President's CFPF is "not really telling the truth."

Maybe you have a different definition in Canuckistan?

This is a silly thing to debate here, but Mr. Natural wasn't.

Dave.

[Steve in ATL]

This is a silly thing to debate here, but Mr. Natural wasn't.

Dave.

Well, yeah. Especially since he's never billed himself (or been billed) as "Mr. Natural."

[D-Queued]

Well, yeah. Especially since he's never billed himself (or been billed) as "Mr. Natural."

He is, and has, actively promoted himself as ant-drug.

This is consistent with the taint around body building, and promotion of products like FRS Free Energy (to add a cycling analogy on promoting supplements) or even eating your Wheaties as the tonic for high perfrmance.

In 1985, for example, Schwarzenegger appeared in Stop the Madness, an anti-drug music video sponsored by the Reagan administration.

Aside from the steroid use, that 'personal endorsement' came after

an interview in adult magazine Oui from 1977 surfaced, in which Schwarzenegger discussed attending sexual orgies and using substances such as marijuana.[106] Schwarzenegger is shown smoking a marijuana joint after winning Mr. Olympia in the 1975 documentary film Pumping Iron. In an interview with GQ magazine in October 2007, Schwarzenegger said, "[Marijuana] is not a drug. It's a leaf. My drug was pumping iron, trust me."

Above all courtesy of Wikipedia.

Dave.

This post has been edited by D-Queued: Dec 1 2009, 08:44 PM

[diknutz]

if you've never seen "pumping iron", you need to...my guess is that president bush never did.


This post has been edited by diknutz: Dec 1 2009, 09:59 PM

[Steve in ATL]

He is, and has, actively promoted himself as ant-drug.

This is consistent with the taint around body building, and promotion of products like FRS Free Energy (to add a cycling analogy on promoting supplements) or even eating your Wheaties as the tonic for high perfrmance.

In 1985, for example, Schwarzenegger appeared in Stop the Madness, an anti-drug music video sponsored by the Reagan administration.

Aside from the steroid use, that 'personal endorsement' came after

an interview in adult magazine Oui from 1977 surfaced, in which Schwarzenegger discussed attending sexual orgies and using substances such as marijuana.[106] Schwarzenegger is shown smoking a marijuana joint after winning Mr. Olympia in the 1975 documentary film Pumping Iron. In an interview with GQ magazine in October 2007, Schwarzenegger said, "[Marijuana] is not a drug. It's a leaf. My drug was pumping iron, trust me."

Above all courtesy of Wikipedia.

Dave.

Apparently you missed this part of the wikipedia article:

Schwarzenegger has admitted to using performance-enhancing anabolic steroids while they were legal, writing in 1967 that "steroids were helpful to me in maintaining muscle size while on a strict diet in preparation for a contest. I did not use them for muscle growth, but rather for muscle maintenance when cutting up." He has called the drugs "tissue building."[29]

Apparently you missed this part of the wikipedia article:

Schwarzenegger has admitted to using performance-enhancing anabolic steroids while they were legal, writing in 1967 that "steroids were helpful to me in maintaining muscle size while on a strict diet in preparation for a contest. I did not use them for muscle growth, but rather for muscle maintenance when cutting up." He has called the drugs "tissue building."[29]

And apparently by your line of reasoning, no one who has done drugs in the past has any right to change their own moral code or reasoning.

In light of that, I look forward to your criticism of Jesus Manzano and David Millar.


My guess is, however, that your criticism is better saved for the Former President (who probably did not know what he was buying into), which would make it a non-cycling related political issue.

[D-Queued]

Apparently you missed this part of the wikipedia article:

Schwarzenegger has admitted to using performance-enhancing anabolic steroids while they were legal, writing in 1967 that "steroids were helpful to me in maintaining muscle size while on a strict diet in preparation for a contest. I did not use them for muscle growth, but rather for muscle maintenance when cutting up." He has called the drugs "tissue building."[29]

And apparently by your line of reasoning, no one who has done drugs in the past has any right to change their own moral code or reasoning.

In light of that, I look forward to your criticism of Jesus Manzano and David Millar.
My guess is, however, that your criticism is better saved for the Former President (who probably did not know what he was buying into), which would make it a non-cycling related political issue.

This is still a silly debate, and now you are trying to turn it into a political issue.

Nope, I sure don't feel like you are stuffing words in my mouth at all.

Of course I saw the Wiki piece you quoted. That is yet another classic denial by admission statements.

Please explain how 'tissue building' is not for "muscle growth".

The inconsistency in that statement is well into absurdity.

But, if there is a political statement to be made, perhaps doping denial has a lot to do with political insincerity.

With respect to Jesus and David, they both came clean. Neither of them claimed anything along the lines of 'I didn't inhale', or it was just for 'tissue building' but not muscle growth.

Both admitted they did it to cheat.

That admission works for me.

Dave.

[Steve in ATL]

This is still a silly debate, and now you are trying to turn it into a political issue.

Nope, I sure don't feel like you are stuffing words in my mouth at all.

Of course I saw the Wiki piece you quoted. That is yet another classic denial by admission statements.

Please explain how 'tissue building' is not for "muscle growth".

The inconsistency in that statement is well into absurdity.

But, if there is a political statement to be made, perhaps doping denial has a lot to do with political insincerity.

With respect to Jesus and David, they both came clean. Neither of them claimed anything along the lines of 'I didn't inhale', or it was just for 'tissue building' but not muscle growth.

Both admitted they did it to cheat.

That admission works for me.

Dave.

Dude, you're the one who brought GW Bush into it, not me. Don't get your panties in a bunch just because...

What you haven't done is shown how Schwarzenegger has ever lied about his steroid use (which differentiates him from Millar and Manzano since he didn't lie, and it wasn't cheating when he did it...).

I just don't want you to be a hypocrite like Ahnuld, Dave.

[Lister Farrar]

I did not use them for muscle growth, but rather for muscle maintenance when cutting up." He has called the drugs "tissue building."

I think that's pretty much a lie.

[D-Queued]

Dude, you're the one who brought GW Bush into it, not me. Don't get your panties in a bunch just because...

What you haven't done is shown how Schwarzenegger has ever lied about his steroid use (which differentiates him from Millar and Manzano since he didn't lie, and it wasn't cheating when he did it...).

I just don't want you to be a hypocrite like Ahnuld, Dave.

Ok, ok, I am not arguing any more.

But, a few more comments as clrifications only if you will.

First, the intent of the steroid use all along has been to deceive. One of my favorite statements (not in Wiki), was that they didn't use as much then as they do now. Suggesting, somehow, that small amounts are ok - kind of like the no inhale thing.

Second, it wasn't GW that I mentioned, but GHW.

And, it wasn't political so much as it was further example of using success obtained by drug use (aka abuse) specifically pursued for personal profit to then promote health/healthy lifestyle. With his Presidential appointment, he was charged - by the President - to become a role model for 5 to 8 year olds.

Oh, to be a 97, or even 67 lb weakling.

Honestly, we might as well start using silicone enhancement to promote health.

Dave.

P.S. I am very much a fan of Ahnold, including for the best one liner in the history of cinema - which is censored on this site. I just don't consider myself confused about what the nature of his self-made situation is. His first movie, Hercules in NY, in many ways is the best definition of how Hollywood he is/was. They didn't like his <now signature> accent so they dubbed him. Thus a perfect 'dubbed falsehood' if you get the point.

[diknutz]

Dude, you're the one who brought GW Bush into it, not me. Don't get your panties in a bunch just because...

What you haven't done is shown how Schwarzenegger has ever lied about his steroid use (which differentiates him from Millar and Manzano since he didn't lie, and it wasn't cheating when he did it...).

I just don't want you to be a hypocrite like Ahnuld, Dave.

Hypocrisy IS lying...the most sissy form of lying in fact.

[Steve in ATL]

I think that's pretty much a lie.

I want to make it clear: that's not a quote of me.

Hypocrisy IS lying...the most sissy form of lying in fact.

Please explain how hypocrisy is lying. First, you will have to show how Schwarzenegger in any way lied, Lister's example notwithstanding (which, technically, I could argue might not e a lie at all).

[Lister Farrar]

I want to make it clear: that's not a quote of me.
Please explain how hypocrisy is lying. First, you will have to show how Schwarzenegger in any way lied, Lister's example notwithstanding (which, technically, I could argue might not e a lie at all).

I know it's not you speaking, but how can the act of taking steroids, getting huge and winning body building in a era of widespread steroid use, and then saying it wasn't for muscle building be anything but?

It's the usual 'win at all costs, then deny deny deny'.