IOC Declares 6 positive for CERA in Bejing Games?, Wondering if any cyclists are among those found non-negative Options

[Velo]

hmmm.

Would that we, and by we I mean others here, could apply that logic to someone who has been accused, investigated extensively, and conclusively passed every doping test and inquiry he has been subjected to?
No?
Right, didnt think so.

Except for those 6 samples with EPO in them, course. Bit of a sticking point.

This post has been edited by Velo: Apr 29 2009, 03:22 AM

[option]

Except for those 6 samples with EPO in them, course. Bit of a sticking point.

Aaaah, Tin-Tin. The little wheelsucker that could.

This is a good day.

[The Rake]

AM spying some interesting double standards on this thread already with regard to Tin Tin.

Read what Leipheimer has to say in CyclingNews this morning:

"Rebellin's former Gerolsteiner team-mate Levi Leipheimer said it's disappointing news of a non-negative sample has been made public prior to the outcome of a B-sample. Leipheimer contested the Olympic Games in Beijing, China and finished 20th in the road race.

"I was just talking to some of my team and we all think it's a pity that it's come out like this," said Leipheimer. "Of course the B sample hasn't even come back and we're sitting here talking about this. The process shouldn't be like this.""

And yet, this forum has systematically now hung, drawn and quartered Rebellin. What happened to all those tales of innocent until proven guilty? It's disgusting that this should come out before the B-sample is tested etc

And, yes, I do not doubt that he is guilty. But then I would usually assume that someone is guilty from the A-sample, and have never protested otherwise

This post has been edited by The Rake: Apr 29 2009, 06:49 AM

[Drongo]

AM spying some interesting double standards on this thread already with regard to Tin Tin.

...

And yet, this forum has systematically now hung, drawn and quartered Rebellin. What happened to all those tales of innocent until proven guilty? It's disgusting that this should come out before the B-sample is tested etc

And, yes, I do not doubt that he is guilty. But then I would usually assume that someone is guilty from the A-sample, and have never protested otherwise

Double standards? Oh, come now, Rakish One.

Tin-Tin isn't American; he isn't even a boy reporter. He has an ugly face and an uglier wheelsucking style, and he doesn't speak English as his mother tongue. Johnny Foreigners like Kashechkin and Sella (and Cancellara and Schleck and that horrible man who stole my boy's mountain stage/classic win/insert here) are guilty even before they test positive, or even if they never do. Why even bother with the A-sample? Once they've been popped, that's it.

There's a difference, though, between suspecting someone doped and then calling them out once the A-sample comes out. For some, it's a surprise; for others, confirmation. And for still others, that passport is like a magic wand or Jedi mind trick. These aren't the blood samples you're looking for.

Rebellin was video-taped dosing himself up. And he got away with it. There are very few other riders who could pull that kind of stunt off, and fewer still who would have defenders once a blood test shows they've doped. I, for one, am not unhappy he's been busted. I hope I would be consistent were it another rider.

[pugdog]

I'm curious about one point, even though it's just hearsay at present. At least one of the positives for CERA is supposedly a weightlifter. What benefits in such an explosive sport?

Also, why is it only Rebellin's name that has been publicised? What about the rest?

[option]

AM spying some interesting double standards on this thread already with regard to Tin Tin.

...

And yet, this forum has systematically now hung, drawn and quartered Rebellin. What happened to all those tales of innocent until proven guilty? It's disgusting that this should come out before the B-sample is tested etc

And, yes, I do not doubt that he is guilty. But then I would usually assume that someone is guilty from the A-sample, and have never protested otherwise

Hope the finger isn't pointed in my direction, Rake!

I am both upset and happy when dopers are busted - upset when it's a good rider, but happy when they are caught. I was disappointed when Ricco was caught, but it wasn't exactly a surprise, so I was glad they nailed him.

I hope that makes sense.

I certainly don't give riders doping-favouritism due to nationality. I am keenly aware that there were both swiss francs and aussie dollars in one of the packages sent to Fuentes, and that there are precious few riders who would need both currencies....

I agree that it's not perfect to announce an AAF as a result of the positive A-sample before testing the B-sample. It won't stop me thinking Tin-Tin is a doper. I'm pretty sure the video is still on youtube.

Double standards? Oh, come now, Rakish One.

Tin-Tin isn't American; he isn't even a boy reporter. He has an ugly face and an uglier wheelsucking style, and he doesn't speak English as his mother tongue. Johnny Foreigners like Kashechkin and Sella (and Cancellara and Schleck and that horrible man who stole my boy's mountain stage/classic win/insert here) are guilty even before they test positive, or even if they never do. Why even bother with the A-sample? Once they've been popped, that's it.

There's a difference, though, between suspecting someone doped and then calling them out once the A-sample comes out. For some, it's a surprise; for others, confirmation. And for still others, that passport is like a magic wand or Jedi mind trick. These aren't the blood samples you're looking for.

Rebellin was video-taped dosing himself up. And he got away with it. There are very few other riders who could pull that kind of stunt off, and fewer still who would have defenders once a blood test shows they've doped. I, for one, am not unhappy he's been busted. I hope I would be consistent were it another rider.

Good post! Agreed on all fronts.

[The Rake]

Hope the finger isn't pointed in my direction, Rake!

Nope, it was an observation, not a direct discrimination.

This post has been edited by The Rake: Apr 29 2009, 07:26 AM

[option]

Also, why is it only Rebellin's name that has been publicised? What about the rest?

Because cycling is the scapegoat sport. Even though there are more athletics AAFs from CERA, expect this to lead to pressure to ban cycling from the Olympic (but not the precious Track and Field). In my view, it's why cycling MUST be more proactive about doping - because with each positive, it's death by a thousand cuts, and the media circus joins in.

Someone on this forum once quoted Macbeth: (Act 3, Sc iv)

I am in blood
Stepped in so far that, should I wade no more,
Returning were as tedious as go o'er.

That's where cycling is. Too far stepped in blood to turn back.

This post has been edited by option: Apr 29 2009, 07:30 AM

[fab]

While it seems obvious to me that he was doped to the gills, I don't believe CERA would be a sprinter's drug of choice.

EPO allows athletes to train harder than everyone else so it can be use in all physical sport, maybe it would be efficient in chess by bringing more oxygen to brain.
Besides EPO helps recovering.

[Strategy]

Not to take away from your proper sentiment, the bolded text is not true strictly speaking - Sella was the UCI's catch.

True, I stand corrected (though the samples were tested in France - which may, or may not, be relevant). Of course, he was not a ProTour rider, so perhaps he wasn't on the "UCI program".

This post has been edited by Strategy: Apr 29 2009, 08:46 AM

[Burkni]

While it seems obvious to me that he was doped to the gills, I don't believe CERA would be a sprinter's drug of choice.

Kelly White, Tim Montgomery, Dwayne Chambers? Marion Jones? Have admitted to EPO use in training. All a question of intensity and recovery.

[Strategy]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but CONI has now confirmed that Rebellin is the rider tested positive.

Rebellin, of course, denies having done EPO.

This post has been edited by Strategy: Apr 29 2009, 09:41 AM

[Chris E]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but CONI has now confirmed that Rebellin is the rider tested positive.

Rebellin, of course, denies having done EPO.

Denial is an easier position to take when it takes 8 months for the results to come out.

Sanchez sure was strong that day to beat him clean.

[fab]

Denial is an easier position to take when it takes 8 months for the results to come out.

Sanchez sure was strong that day to beat him clean.

GOTO "Why I don't believe in pro cycling"

[frenchfry]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but CONI has now confirmed that Rebellin is the rider tested positive.

Rebellin, of course, denies having done EPO.

Of course. If I recall correctly he denied doping even when he was filmed doing it.

[rational head]

OK. I think we can narrow down some odds.

Of the six new CERA positives in the Olympics, Rebellin was confirmed yesterday. It looks like we can include another name into this 'list of SIX" - Athanasia Tsoumeleka. She's a Greek race walker. She was charged in January for using CERA and ALREADY penalized by a 2 year ban. I'm guessing her sample was among the retrospectively tested.

I will go out on a limb and state my opinion - any chances of Cancellara being the "twice positive athlete" are negligible and all these rumors appear groundless.

[Chris E]

That's who immediately sprung to my mind as well, but the IOC specifically focused on "endurance" events, which would probably mean that he wasn't among those retested.

Why are any specific events "focused on"? Why not just retest them all, or at least the medal winners?

Yes, I had the same feeling watching Bolt as I did watching S17.

Though I am desperately trying to avoid another argument, weren't you just posting in support of Tyler?

He beat known dopers.

Just sayin'

Dave.

Dave, don't even try breaking the spell Diluca has over our resident teeny-bopper moderator. She has posters of him over her bed.

[roadwarrior]

AM spying some interesting double standards on this thread already with regard to Tin Tin.

Read what Leipheimer has to say in CyclingNews this morning:

"Rebellin's former Gerolsteiner team-mate Levi Leipheimer said it's disappointing news of a non-negative sample has been made public prior to the outcome of a B-sample. Leipheimer contested the Olympic Games in Beijing, China and finished 20th in the road race.

"I was just talking to some of my team and we all think it's a pity that it's come out like this," said Leipheimer. "Of course the B sample hasn't even come back and we're sitting here talking about this. The process shouldn't be like this.""

And yet, this forum has systematically now hung, drawn and quartered Rebellin. What happened to all those tales of innocent until proven guilty? It's disgusting that this should come out before the B-sample is tested etc

And, yes, I do not doubt that he is guilty. But then I would usually assume that someone is guilty from the A-sample, and have never protested otherwise

That only works for riders I like. For riders I don't like, B samples are meaningless.

[Burkni]

Except for those 6 samples with EPO in them, course. Bit of a sticking point.

A smear campaign, just like the cortisone positive. We have been through this many times before

[RTT]

Also, why is it only Rebellin's name that has been publicised? What about the rest?

My guess is Rebellin is the "celebrity" of the positives..