[N.B.O.L.]

Everyone keeps talking about how Farrar has marked this stage, so he can pay tribute to Wouter Weylandt. I would like to see him be able to pull that off, but he needs to find more top end speed than he had today if he is going to be able to do that. Burkni, you always study the finishes, how does the last couple of KM look for this stage?

My big decision for tomorrow, and I guess the rest of the race is do I go ahead and pay Universal for their web package and watch the races on an 13 inch screen when I can sneak some time in from work, or do I try to not pay any attention to cycling news sources all day long, and then watch it on the big screen when I get home from work.

This post has been edited by N.B.O.L.: 06 May 2012 - 07:33 PM

[The Rake]

I agree. There is no sentimentality really in racing, and all those (practically) will have raced with Wouter, sheltered behind him, cut him up etc at one point. I like Tyler Farrar, but find that in recent seasons he has lost an edge. I really would have thought he could have grown into a big GT points jersey challenger, but he seeems to lack the "killer"(aka need to win rather than want to win) instinct.

Happy for him to prove me wrong tomorrow, but I dare say whoever wins will dedicate it to WW. I don't see/feel it as being his job. As a sprinter he should earmark all stages that are flat.

Good luck to him and may they all stay safe

[Burkni]

N.B.O.L., on 06 May 2012 - 07:28 PM, said:

Everyone keeps talking about how Farrar has marked this stage, so he can pay tribute to Wouter Weylandt. I would like to see him be able to pull that off, but he needs to find more top end speed than he had today if he is going to be able to do that. Burkni, you always study the finishes, how does the last couple of KM look for this stage?

Well, there are 3x14km finishing circuits around Horsens, each with some 13 corners, so the circuits alone represent 39 possibilities for high-speed crashes
The finishing km has one sweeping bend, not quite 90°, and a finish on the nice, wide open Strandpromenade, so that in itself looks good. The stage as a whole is almost guaranteed to see more crashes.

Don't expect any attacks from the Ivan Bassos on the immense () Ejer Bavnehoj (4th cat).
I don't even see that they are doing the actual climb, more just skirting its sides.

The Rake, on 06 May 2012 - 08:10 PM, said:

I agree. There is no sentimentality really in racing, and all those (practically) will have raced with Wouter, sheltered behind him, cut him up etc at one point. I like Tyler Farrar, but find that in recent seasons he has lost an edge. I really would have thought he could have grown into a big GT points jersey challenger, but he seeems to lack the "killer"(aka need to win rather than want to win) instinct.

His attitude on the bike has become very much one of a Flandrian, and he claims to spend more time training on cobbles than doing sprints.
That could explain some of the speed he is missing at this point where he has only just (well, a month ago) tried to peak for the cobbled races. He is probably here mainly to rev the engine for the Tour, but mixing it up in the process. I don't agree that he has lost his edge, in 2011 he finally got the Tour stage he had been so desperate for the two preceding years when he had been repeatedly beaten into submission by Cav.

[buddy]

I think Mathew Harley Goss will be the hungriest rider out there. He must be sick of second place by now.

Thanks,

Buddy

[Burkni]

buddy, on 07 May 2012 - 06:19 AM, said:

I think Mathew Harley Goss will be the hungriest rider out there. He must be sick of second place by now.

Thanks,

Buddy

How right you were.

Cav taken out by a disgusting move by Ferrari, with a lot of other riders hitting the deck.
Guardini Favili made an unbelievable bunny-hop over Cav as he lay on the tarmac

Edit: Had the wrong Vino Farnese

This post has been edited by Burkni: 07 May 2012 - 02:20 PM

[mapeifan]

Burkni, on 07 May 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

How right you were.

Cav taken out by a disgusting move by Ferrari, with a lot of other riders hitting the deck.
Guardini Favili made an unbelievable bunny-hop over Cav as he lay on the tarmac

Edit: Had the wrong Vino Farnese

And the FDJ rider that went around him as he fell right at his wheel, but the hop was amazing. What the heck was Ferrari thinking, guess he saw the space to the right and just forgot everything he ever learned about bunch sprinting. He will not be a popular man tonight or tomorrow.

This post has been edited by mapeifan: 07 May 2012 - 06:14 PM

[Burkni]

mapeifan, on 07 May 2012 - 06:08 PM, said:

And the FDJ rider that went around him as he fell right at his wheel, but the hop was amazing. What the heck was Ferrari thinking, guess he saw the space to the right and just forgot everything he ever learned about bunch sprinting. He will not be a popular man tonight or tomorrow.

He really should be chucked off the race.

[mapeifan]

Burkni, on 07 May 2012 - 06:49 PM, said:

He really should be chucked off the race.

They would have every right to do it. He took out the Maglia Rosa, the current World Champion and sprint jersey holder and altered the stage result. He wasn't pushed or forced into a bad spot. Usually it takes a 3rd offense to get eliminated, but the UCI rules do stipulate that the "Commissaires panel may, in particularly serious cases, eliminate and fine a rider on the first offense"

[The Rake]

Just seen it. Ironically Sean Kelly had been eulogising earlier in the day about how good Cav is at stopping, getting out of trouble and starting again. Watching the overhead, he had already dealt with being cut in by Rasmussen, but nothing he could do about Ferrari. it was rough and it was dangerous and oddly Ferrari had a clearer and shorter line to have gone left.

Not sure I would throw him out. He clearly wasn't looking and was trying to follow Farrar. Intent none. Amateurism. Lots.

Hope all those that fell are okay, and Ferrari's mechanic gives him wing mirrors.

Cav was going fast but was really racing for third there

[buddy]

Firstly. Yay Matty Goss. I'll bet that felt good.

Secondly. Yes throw the idiot off and tell him to go back to school.

He could have seriously killed someone and it was just dumbass riding.

Now Ferrari had every right to move off Farrar's wheel and kick for the line. If he had done so Cavendish would have been able to adjust his line to go around him. Ferrari took that option away however by moving out at 45 degrees and straight across Cav's line. It was disgraceful riding and disrespectful of his fellow riders. He deserves to be kicked off the race so that he can have a think about it. What made it worse is after the race claimed he did nothing wrong. I hopw his DS hit him around the head a few times to make it sink in what an idiot he was.

Yay Gossy. Good leadout from the Green Edge boys too.

Thanks,

Buddy

[N.B.O.L.]

I never realized that crossing the finish line in an ambulance counted as finishing. In this case I don't object to it, I just didn't think the rules allowed it. Still everyplace is still showing Phinney as the leader, and the interviews are talking about glad it's a rest day so he has a chance to recover.

Just read the actual rule on VeloNews. Glad it is like it is. Also glad that the relegated Ferrari, but I still would want to be him in the peloton for the next few days.

[crockett]

Finally catching up as I forgo the news so that I can watch the stage at night. Yet another wild finish. Cav is lucky only one guy rode over him- he must have been scared to death lying in the middle of the road. What is the precedent for kicking out a rider for stupid, but not intentional, riding. I can't recall anyone getting the heave ho for an accidental screw up.

[ETBE]

I wonder what Italian forums are writing about Ferrari and Cavendish. I don't think this was such an unusual sprint. many sprinters do things like Ferrari, Cavendish himself for example. The big failure is of Team Sky. They are English team and they have the jewel of the crown in their hands, and what they are doing with it? let him sprint alone with all the other crazy sprinters. If they can't manage the sprints now what will they do in the Tour de France when they have to deal with Wiggins as well?

[buddy]

I think it was far more serious than an accidental screw up. It showed a blantant disregard for the other riders around him. Yes it deserves getting the heave ho.

The problem no doubt was that Ferrari had his blinkers on. He could only see the finish line and Giro glory. The red mist clouded the eyes and off he went straight through Cav's wheel.

I was unlucky enough to experience this first hand 18 months ago. A guy in our club did the same thing in a sprint. The result, the guy whose wheel he took out, busted pelvis in three places and a shattered collarbone. Me who was next in line didn't perform the super bunny hop but instead grabbed too much brake and launched over the prostrate rider at 50kph landed on my head/helmet ( am lucky to be alive and walking ) and did a back slam that broke two vertebrae. Yes it hurt quite a bit.

Red mist and sprinting do not and should not belong together. After watching the sate 3 finish Ferrari is a red mist rider and he should be kicked off the race to ponder that. The fact that he tried to justify his actions makes it all the more worse. As a supposed professional rider I think we can and should expect more than what Ferrari has to offer.

Ask the question if Cavendish was dead because of that move (and he quite easily could have ) would you kick him off the race then?

Thanks,

Buddy

[N.B.O.L.]

ETBE, on 08 May 2012 - 05:51 AM, said:

I wonder what Italian forums are writing about Ferrari and Cavendish. I don't think this was such an unusual sprint. many sprinters do things like Ferrari, Cavendish himself for example. The big failure is of Team Sky. They are English team and they have the jewel of the crown in their hands, and what they are doing with it? let him sprint alone with all the other crazy sprinters. If they can't manage the sprints now what will they do in the Tour de France when they have to deal with Wiggins as well?

If you don't see any difference between what Cav did in that video and what Ferrari did in stage three, then we watch totally different endings to stage three.

[N.B.O.L.]

The Rake, on 07 May 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

Cav was going fast but was really racing for third there

Rake, your are probably right that he was racing for third, but it is still a sprint I would very much have liked to have seen somehow magically removing Ferrari from the picture. It would be really interesting to see just how close he could have gotten.

[buddy]

CA had to go from a long way out. I am pretty sure he would have hit the wall before he got passed Goes. As good as he is it was too much start.

Remember Goes is no slouch when on form. He was running down Cav in the world champs. He is in good form now. Think he had Cav beaten anyway.

I am just annoyed that Ferrari moved so far when he didn't need to. Maybe his first name is now Abdujaparov.

Thank,
Buddy

[Burkni]

I would personally like to see the UCI instate a rule whereby GT organizers could place the "finish line" where the stage's time would be taken (and added to riders' total time) at 3kms out or so, an arriveé fictive.

That way the actual sprint could be contested by only say 1/3rd of the peloton which would make for a less crowded finish.

In Horsens, for example, that could have seen Phinney safely defend his jersey before things became absolutely frenetic and then coast the last few kms and blow kisses to his fans. Or contest the final sprint for bonus seconds and get taken out by Ferrari.

[mapeifan]

Burkni, on 08 May 2012 - 02:18 PM, said:

I would personally like to see the UCI instate a rule whereby GT organizers could place the "finish line" where the stage's time would be taken (and added to riders' total time) at 3kms out or so, an arriveé fictive.

That way the actual sprint could be contested by only say 1/3rd of the peloton which would make for a less crowded finish.

In Horsens, for example, that could have seen Phinney safely defend his jersey before things became absolutely frenetic and then coast the last few kms and blow kisses to his fans. Or contest the final sprint for bonus seconds and get taken out by Ferrari.

While you are generally a visionary savant my friend, I think I will not be a fan of this line of thinking. What will follow?- a 1km from the summit rule, so that non-climbers don't have to mix it up on the steep bits, keeping the rouleurs safe from the bird-chested skinnies?

God, I miss the Red Train. From 8km out, speeds so fast nobody without a steering wheel in their hands could come around. Not to say there wasn't a bit of argy-bargy but it definitely winnowed out the pretenders from the men who respected the danger.

[Burkni]

mapeifan, on 08 May 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:

While you are generally a visionary savant my friend

Gee ... errrm ... thanks?

Quote

, I think I will not be a fan of this line of thinking. What will follow?- a 1km from the summit rule, so that non-climbers don't have to mix it up on the steep bits, keeping the rouleurs safe from the bird-chested skinnies?

Well, obviously not on any stage that is expected to have a significant bearing on the GC.
Let's say a team like Quick.Step want to expose their rivals to crosswinds and echelons, they simply race to the arriveé fictive and then Tommeke also goes on to win the sprint

Quote

God, I miss the Red Train. From 8km out, speeds so fast nobody without a steering wheel in their hands could come around. Not to say there wasn't a bit of argy-bargy but it definitely winnowed out the pretenders from the men who respected the danger.

I'll second that but I'm not convinced that today's trains are any worse - there is just no train that is head and shoulders above the rest. I'm quite sure that Zabel, Cipo or Petacchi would have been happy with today's Sky train in their service ... well, make that the HTC train.