[VdB]

Today was one of the most ridiculous exploits I've seen in quite a long time in cycling (and that's saying something). Never trust anyone with a bovine nickname...buffalo, bison, etc.


That is all.

[Burkni]

We talking about the Vuelta here? Don't know any nicknames, just history.

[VdB]

Burkni, on 04 September 2011 - 03:44 PM, said:

We talking about the Vuelta here? Don't know any nicknames, just history.

Cobo is 'the Bison'.

[Burkni]

He is now so fired up by his Angliru success that he finishes 10th on a pure sprinting stage. WTF??
This is eerily reminiscent of Schumacher ...

[lanterne_rouge]

Have to say that ever since I heard about what happened on Sunday, I've been thinking, 'here we go again', flashing back to Tour '06 and so on.

Nothing so far, despite today's unlikely exploit (sprint top 10 - far more unlikely than mountain escape, IMO!). But <conspiracy theory> this is a Sp*n**rd we are talking about here, isn't it? </conspiracy theory>

Hmm.

Just sayin', as the OP put it.

[crockett]

VdB, on 04 September 2011 - 03:42 PM, said:

Today was one of the most ridiculous exploits I've seen in quite a long time in cycling (and that's saying something). Never trust anyone with a bovine nickname...buffalo, bison, etc.


That is all.

But is Cobo's performance the most unbelievable in this Vuelta? I think not. He's been out-buffaloed in my opinion.

[VdB]

Maybe, but at least Froome is still relatively young and started cycling pretty late. I'm not gonna condemn him yet.

Cobo exploded unto the scene in 2007 after 5 years of unremarkable results, winning Basque Country in imposing fashion before teaming up with Riccò and Piepoli in those infamous Tour stages. Then, when those two are caught doping (what a surprise) he disappears into relative oblivion for a year or 2-3 before winning on the Angliru as if it's a Sunday ride. So yeah, I'm a little more suspicious of him.


As for the sprinting result...well it WAS a bizarre sprint. Half the guys went the wrong way or had to brake to stay up from confusion at that last roundabout a few hundred meters from the line. It's a miracle Sagan stayed on his bike - great handling. I don't see it as super suspicious that he'd place 10th in a completely irregular sprint (seeing as most sprinters left already too).

[crockett]

VdB, on 09 September 2011 - 10:41 PM, said:

Maybe, but at least Froome is still relatively young and started cycling pretty late. I'm not gonna condemn him yet.

Cobo exploded unto the scene in 2007 after 5 years of unremarkable results, winning Basque Country in imposing fashion before teaming up with Riccò and Piepoli in those infamous Tour stages. Then, when those two are caught doping (what a surprise) he disappears into relative oblivion for a year or 2-3 before winning on the Angliru as if it's a Sunday ride. So yeah, I'm a little more suspicious of him.


As for the sprinting result...well it WAS a bizarre sprint. Half the guys went the wrong way or had to brake to stay up from confusion at that last roundabout a few hundred meters from the line. It's a miracle Sagan stayed on his bike - great handling. I don't see it as super suspicious that he'd place 10th in a completely irregular sprint (seeing as most sprinters left already too).

Not challenging your read on Cobo at all, VdB! Just saying it is only the 2nd most amazing performance in total for this Vuelta, IMO.

[lanterne_rouge]

crockett, on 10 September 2011 - 03:01 AM, said:

Not challenging your read on Cobo at all, VdB! Just saying it is only the 2nd most amazing performance in total for this Vuelta, IMO.

Crockett, you sure about your reading of Froome's exploits? Not unprecedented I submit. First time I took notice of him he was riding for Barloworld in the Tour, 2008 - stayed with a very select group (Evans, both Schleckies, Sammy Sanchez + Sastre + others) and took some good climbing points over the Croix de Fer on stage 17, then sat on Menchov's wheel much of the way up the Alpe. So not a bad climber / rouleur, nu? But Cobo? Apart from his association with a couple of known bad boys, who he??
lr

[Burkni]

@lr: Guess they were both in very good form in the 2008 Tour ...

[lanterne_rouge]

Burkni, on 11 September 2011 - 08:59 AM, said:

@lr: Guess they were both in very good form in the 2008 Tour ...

duh possibly, but I don't think CF has this kind of record Cobo leaves Tour with tainted team . Forced to withdraw with Piepoli and Ricco. Oh dear.
Doesn't mean anything for what happens right here right now 3 years later, of course; maybe he just trained out of his socks for this race, this year; but be it noted that his previous best Vuelta finish was 10th.

lr

[Burkni]

In his post-race interview, Cobo talked about suffering from depression for the past 1.5yrs.
Doesn't make him a clean rider, I know, but it would certainly explain his complete lack of results with Caisse d'Epargne and relatively quick rise from the ashes ... his meds may have kicked in recently.

Returning to Gianetti/Matxin won't have hurt, obviously.

[VdB]

Mmm, well, I suppose depression may be a factor. But depression and mental problems can also be linked to a history of drug abuse, so yeah, I dunno. Perhaps the Giannetti thing like you said is one of the most damning things of all. Let's just say that there isn't much speaking for Cobo at all.

If there are any takers, i'd bet you a few Belgian beers that Cobo is caught within the next month. If not, you'll have to send me a few local beers. Anyone up for it? Only one person...not rich enough to be sending beers to 5-10 people.

[shag]

VdB, on 12 September 2011 - 12:12 PM, said:

If there are any takers, i'd bet you a few Belgian beers that Cobo is caught within the next month. If not, you'll have to send me a few local beers. Anyone up for it?

Warning: don't let Penguin sucker you into a bet - all you'll end up with is some beer with strawberries or petunias or something equally disgusting and disturbing in it. As for Cobo, I am expecting an announcement of a positive test in 3, 2, 1 . . . .

[Burkni]

shag, on 12 September 2011 - 06:10 PM, said:

Warning: don't let Penguin sucker you into a bet - all you'll end up with is some beer with strawberries or petunias or something equally disgusting and disturbing in it. As for Cobo, I am expecting an announcement of a positive test in 3, 2, 1 . . . .

I would probably renege on a bet if I lost to Penguin I won against Penguin.

This post has been edited by Burkni: 12 September 2011 - 08:43 PM

[crockett]

VdB, on 12 September 2011 - 12:12 PM, said:

Mmm, well, I suppose depression may be a factor. But depression and mental problems can also be linked to a history of drug abuse, so yeah, I dunno. Perhaps the Giannetti thing like you said is one of the most damning things of all. Let's just say that there isn't much speaking for Cobo at all.

If there are any takers, i'd bet you a few Belgian beers that Cobo is caught within the next month. If not, you'll have to send me a few local beers. Anyone up for it? Only one person...not rich enough to be sending beers to 5-10 people.

I'll take this bet, not that I have any confidence in Cobo, it's just that I will take any bet that gets me a few Belgian beers at the risk of having to purchase a few midwestern beers for VdB. I wonder, would he prefer the High Life or Genuine Draft. Old Style or Pabst Blue Ribbon. The choices are endless.....

[crockett]

lanterne_rouge, on 11 September 2011 - 04:21 AM, said:

Crockett, you sure about your reading of Froome's exploits? Not unprecedented I submit. First time I took notice of him he was riding for Barloworld in the Tour, 2008 - stayed with a very select group (Evans, both Schleckies, Sammy Sanchez + Sastre + others) and took some good climbing points over the Croix de Fer on stage 17, then sat on Menchov's wheel much of the way up the Alpe. So not a bad climber / rouleur, nu? But Cobo? Apart from his association with a couple of known bad boys, who he??
lr

lr, you have a much better memory than I do. I remember a lot of talk about Froome, because well, he speaks English, and therefore P & P talked a lot about him, but I don't remember him ever being a top 10 finisher type in a mountain stage. I confess that I didn't do any research in making my comments, but I had recalled Cobo finishing at the top of races in the past. He had a tremendous 2007, but also won a mountain stage in 2008 at the TdF and the Vuelta in 2009. [And again, not trying to defend Cobo, although I want him to be out of the news for the next month or so, to win a bet.]

Froome's ITT result was the stunner for me. Beating Wiggins and Cancellara. Recall that Froome was also pulling the peloton along and working for Wiggins for a number of days in the mountains before this result. The guy should have been spent. Having looked at his results now, I see that Froome came 10th in an ITT at the TdS, finishing 1 minute down on Fabian. A very solid result. Of course, his GC result was still quite mediocre- coming in 47th, 42 minutes down. And his results were nowhere in Poland, when he should have been building for the Vuelta, finishing 85th on GC, 26 minutes down. Best finish in any stage this year going into the Vuelta was 8th at Romandie. Not much in the way of results the prior year either.

So while my distrust was misplaced, I guess the mountain finishers were more of an outlier than the ITT (so I had it backwards), I still say that going off of prior results, and the efforts displayed throughout the race, the more amazing performance was Froome. Heck, the guy was beating people for bonus points on the road, and probably would have won the Vuelta by several minutes if he didn't work for Wiggins through much of the race.

[crockett]

VdB, on 12 September 2011 - 12:12 PM, said:

Mmm, well, I suppose depression may be a factor. But depression and mental problems can also be linked to a history of drug abuse, so yeah, I dunno. Perhaps the Giannetti thing like you said is one of the most damning things of all. Let's just say that there isn't much speaking for Cobo at all.

If there are any takers, i'd bet you a few Belgian beers that Cobo is caught within the next month. If not, you'll have to send me a few local beers. Anyone up for it? Only one person...not rich enough to be sending beers to 5-10 people.

By the way, VdB, your timing is perfect, as the "within the month" hopefully runs out on my birthday! I've never tried the fourth Chimay..........

[VdB]

crockett, on 12 September 2011 - 10:49 PM, said:

I'll take this bet, not that I have any confidence in Cobo, it's just that I will take any bet that gets me a few Belgian beers at the risk of having to purchase a few midwestern beers for VdB. I wonder, would he prefer the High Life or Genuine Draft. Old Style or Pabst Blue Ribbon. The choices are endless.....

I was actually sent some US beers from the South (Shiner et al) by a couple of friends a month ago, but I never tried anything from the Midwest! Bet ON!

I made my challenge on September 12th, so if Cobo is still not in trouble by the 12th next month you can expect those beers coming your way.

[The Rake]

Umming and ahhing about both of these riders.

In the past Froome has shown flashes of talent, but has generally found himself in a worker role so either had to sacrifice himself early on or save energy for future stages. He has ridden solid TTs in the Tour de France in the past, and showed well at the Tour of Romandie this year.

Cobo I know little about other than he was the man who finished behind Piepoli (or was it Ricco) in the Tour and the team left the race before the remainder could be caught too.

That said, Barloworld wasn't the squeakiest clean team either, and pulled out of sponsorship after a positive or two.

Brailsford says Froome has great "numbers", so could be one to watch. With CF I guess I would put him on a watch this space status. See what he does next year.

As for Cobo, I'd be interested to know what the "personal reasons" Sastre has for leaving the team. Of all the teams in the Vuelta Geox were the only one that seemed to get stronger as the race progressed.

But, for all the above, it was hardly a strong field for the Vuelta, and the likes of Nibali were more disappointing than the leaders were phenomenal