[N.B.O.L.]

I watched the Versus Coverage that I had recorded, and have two observations from the Prologue.

Spartacus showed why he is Spartacus. Imagine what his time might have been if he had a higher gear so he wasn't spun out for most of the decent.

Andy S, either has the worst luck with his drive system, needs to find a new mechanic, or needs to find a new component sponsor. Considering that his problems last year were on SRAM, and this year they are on Shimano, I tend to think it isn't the components themselves.

(Not related at all to the race, but something I noticed while researching to double check who their component supplier was and found it a little strange, that the Leopard Team page doesn't have Shimano listed on their Partners page, but Shimano lists them as a sponsored team.)

This post has been edited by N.B.O.L.: 12 June 2011 - 03:42 PM

[Leafcake]

N.B.O.L., on 12 June 2011 - 03:38 PM, said:

Andy S, either has the worst luck with his drive system, needs to find a new mechanic, or needs to find a new component sponsor. Considering that his problems last year were on SRAM, and this year they are on Shimano, I tend to think it isn't the components themselves.

Hopefully this doesn't sound too bad, but I just hope that if he drops his chain like that again on a Tour uphill no one holds off any attacks. Maillot Jaune or not.

Soler, who had a surprisingly good result in the prologue (18th at 28") gets today's stage to Crans-Montana. Bodes well for the Tour. Glad to see Cunego up there as well.

This post has been edited by Leafcake: 12 June 2011 - 05:02 PM

[N.B.O.L.]

Well if Andy S. had problems with his transmission on the Prologue, he had problems with his engine on the first stage (or is it the 2nd stage, I didn't think prologues counted in the numbering but CN is calling the Prologue stage 1).

[Leafcake]

Dang! I wanted Cunego to get this one. What a beautiful ride!


...yes, quite right there N.O.B.L. It was st.1 (although a prologish one )

[N.B.O.L.]

Leafcake, on 13 June 2011 - 03:49 PM, said:

Dang! I wanted Cunego to get this one. What a beautiful ride!


...yes, quite right there N.O.B.L. It was st.1 (although a prologish one )

Cunego's ride was very nice. I really thought a couple of those digs were going to hold.

Maybe I don't understand the distinction between a stage and a prologue as well as I thought. At 7.1 KM the Tour de Suisse start meets every definition of a prologue that I have ever seen. I guess if I really cared I would find a copy of the UCI rules online to read what it says.

[Burkni]

Peter Sagan gets the stage, smack off an HC Suisse climb!!
His potential is seemingly limitless and he really is unlike any other rider ... Except Edvald Boasson Hagen!
Bring on their showdown at any given race!

[micomico]

N.B.O.L., on 12 June 2011 - 03:38 PM, said:

IAndy S, either has the worst luck with his drive system, needs to find a new mechanic, or needs to find a new component sponsor. Considering that his problems last year were on SRAM, and this year they are on Shimano, I tend to think it isn't the components themselves.

Maybe the component is... Andy. Hard to fathom at such a high professional level, but the chains can come off if he is not shifting properly. That could have been the issue last year.

[The Rake]

N.B.O.L., on 13 June 2011 - 04:19 PM, said:

Maybe I don't understand the distinction between a stage and a prologue as well as I thought. At 7.1 KM the Tour de Suisse start meets every definition of a prologue that I have ever seen. I guess if I really cared I would find a copy of the UCI rules online to read what it says.

According to the UCI a prologue is a TT which is:

a) under 8km long (or 4km for women and juniors)

I guess the TdS should count, therefore, as a Prologue

[N.B.O.L.]

The Rake, on 13 June 2011 - 09:56 PM, said:

According to the UCI a prologue is a TT which is:

a) under 8km long (or 4km for women and juniors)

I guess the TdS should count, therefore, as a Prologue

I was aware of the 8KM number although I had never thought about a lesser number for women and juniors. My real question is there a formal policy on if you call the stage after the prologue Stage 1 or Stage 2, or is that an organizers decision? I believe the TdF always calls the stage after the prologue Stage 1 when they have a prologue.

This post has been edited by N.B.O.L.: 13 June 2011 - 11:26 PM

[N.B.O.L.]

Leafcake, on 13 June 2011 - 03:49 PM, said:

Dang! I wanted Cunego to get this one. What a beautiful ride!

When I replied to this the first time, I thought you were talking about Sunday's stage, because todays stage had not yet happened for me. I realize now that it might well have happened in real life. Anyway on Monday's stage "The Little Prince" did indeed make a beautiful ride. The effort it took to bridge the gap, and then ride right on by the breakaway was something else. His decent was a fine piece of riding as well, but Sagan's decent was Savoldelli worthy. I'm glad Cunego did get the Yellow Jersey though.

On the Andy S. watch, he obviously needs to find a mess of form quickly if he is going to contend in le Tour.

[Leafcake]

N.B.O.L., on 13 June 2011 - 11:25 PM, said:

I was aware of the 8KM number although I had never thought about a lesser number for women and juniors. My real question is there a formal policy on if you call the stage after the prologue Stage 1 or Stage 2, or is that an organizers decision? I believe the TdF always calls the stage after the prologue Stage 1 when they have a prologue.

Afaik, stage numbering starts with 1. If you have an official prologue, it comes before stage 1. In this TdS, although it is short, the first day was officially a stage, not a prologue. Anyway, in reference to the TdS, I tried to dig into this distinction between “stage 1” and “prologue” a bit more.

Race day lengths appear to be defined more by max kms rather than min.

As we know, the prologue length limit is 8km. Another distinction would be that you can DNF a prologue and still start the following stage. Not sure, but maybe you can also DNS a prologue (provided you do not race elsewhere the same day)?

Possibly the TdS first day being a stage has something to do with the Dauphine still being run. So as to avoid potential conflict of interest (riders moving from the Dauphine on to the TdS).

If you look at the race statistics (p.6 column 5, p.36) you can see that for many years the race had an official prologue. Since 2004 the race has been shortened to a total of 9 days and the official prologue gone (maybe this coincided with some UCI calendar changes). Nevertheless on 4 occasions stage 1 could have potentially been a prologue, distance wise (2007, 2009, 2010, 2011). On all of these occasions Cancellara won.

In the earlier years Cancellara was more of a prologue specialist, yet less consistent when it came to longer ITTs (well, the likes of Ullrich were around to scorch the road).

2002 - Prologue: Zuelle, long ITT: Tobias Steinhauser
2003 - Prologue: Cance
2004 - no short opener, long ITT: Ullrich
2005 - no short opener, long ITT: Ullrich
2006 - no short opener, long ITT: Ullrich
2007 - st.1 (3.8km) ITT, st.9 (long) ITT both won by Cance
2008 - no short opener. An outlier: Cance does not win the long ITT\st.8, but wins two road stages
2009 - st.1 (7.8km) ITT, st.9 (long) ITT both won by Cance as well as overall GC
2010 - st.1 (7.6km) ITT: Cance, st.9 (long) ITT: T Martin
2011 - st.1 (7.3km) ITT: Cance, st.9 (long) ITT: up for grabs

Just saying, maybe the Swiss reintroduced a short opener to increase the chances of a Swiss win.

Edit: fixed mistakes in 2008 and 2009.
~ don't sleep and post ~

This post has been edited by Leafcake: 14 June 2011 - 11:10 AM

[Leafcake]

N.B.O.L., on 14 June 2011 - 12:33 AM, said:

When I replied to this the first time, I thought you were talking about Sunday's stage, because todays stage had not yet happened for me. I realize now that it might well have happened in real life. Anyway on Monday's stage "The Little Prince" did indeed make a beautiful ride. The effort it took to bridge the gap, and then ride right on by the breakaway was something else. His decent was a fine piece of riding as well, but Sagan's decent was Savoldelli worthy. I'm glad Cunego did get the Yellow Jersey though.

real life

Not sure Cunego can hold on to this lead. Really looks like he is after a win. Read on tuttobiciweb, that a mechanic of Lampre just died and they wanted to win a stage in his memory.

[mapeifan]

@f_cancellara retweeted this shot of him and Pascal Richard, former Swiss great and Olympic Gold Medalist in 1996 in Atlanta

Pic

This post has been edited by mapeifan: 14 June 2011 - 02:50 AM

[Burkni]

Leafcake, on 14 June 2011 - 01:09 AM, said:

2008 - no short opener. An outlier: Cance does not win the long ITT\st.8, takes two road stages and the overall
2009 - st.1 (7.8km) ITT, st.9 (long) ITT both won by Cance

Aren't you confusing years here mapeifan? I think he took the GC in 2009 ...

[Leafcake]

Burkni, on 14 June 2011 - 08:20 AM, said:

Aren't you confusing years here mapeifan? I think he took the GC in 2009 ...

hmm... I don't think you'd catch mapeifan messing things up like that. Me otoh...
Thanks Burkni, you are absolutely right. Fixed that.

Still, 2008 is the only year in which Cance won road stages at the TdS. In this sense it can be viewed as an outlier. Granted, winning the overall is obviously an outlier, but it is arguably based on his ITT stage gains.

This post has been edited by Leafcake: 14 June 2011 - 11:20 AM

[Burkni]

Leafcake, on 14 June 2011 - 11:19 AM, said:

hmm... I don't think you'd catch mapeifan messing things up like that. Me otoh...
Thanks Burkni, you are absolutely right. Fixed that.

Still, 2008 is the only year in which Cance won road stages at the TdS. In this sense it can be viewed as an outlier. Granted, winning the overall is obviously an outlier, but it is arguably based on his ITT stage gains.

2009 was an exceptionally easy parcours, the queen stage finished in Crans Montana I believe and it finished with a 39km TT in Bern, Canc's hometown.
Tailor-made, anyone?

[Leafcake]

Burkni, on 14 June 2011 - 01:16 PM, said:

2009 was an exceptionally easy parcours, the queen stage finished in Crans Montana

Well, they also took a slightly easier road up to Crans-Montana and left out the extra kick to Veramala which we had this year.

[Burkni]

Who knew!! THOR STILL HUNGRY!!!

[Mark]

Burkni, on 14 June 2011 - 03:55 PM, said:

Who knew!! THOR STILL HUNGRY!!!

It's about damn time! He hadn't done anything this year so far, aside from getting a great look at Cancellara's back wheel in PR.

[Burkni]

Mark, on 14 June 2011 - 06:43 PM, said:

It's about damn time! He hadn't done anything this year so far, aside from getting a great look at Cancellara's back wheel in PR.

Beating Sagan on his current form is no small feat.