[shag]

Surely there's a bit of hyperbole in this article, right VdB??? Times Article

[sweatpea]

Surely there's a bit of hyperbole in this article, right VdB??? Times Article

and I thought our French/English divide in Quebec was going to push
Canada over the brink. Do you know we actually have a federal party the Bloq
Quebecois that advocates for the separation of Quebec from Canada? In the US or other places that would be called treason...never mind allowing a political party to actually get funds from the taxpayer to be on the ballot.

[Burkni]

and I thought our French/English divide in Quebec was going to push
Canada over the brink. Do you know we actually have a federal party the Bloq
Quebecois that advocates for the separation of Quebec from Canada? In the US or other places that would be called treason...never mind allowing a political party to actually get funds from the taxpayer to be on the ballot.

From what I have heard from some Canadians it would be a good riddance

[sweatpea]

Burkni, it's like the story of "cry wolf"....the wolf has been at the door so many times that if they ever decide to separate we won't really believe it...

[VdB]

Shag:

Actually, everything in that article is spot on. There's no hyperbole there. The only hyperbole is that it's going to be the end of Belgium, really. I'm not saying it's not going to happen, but we've been there before a few times so...

As the article states, it's almost too complicated to explain and very surreal. The basic gist is that some communities close to Brussels* that are technically speaking part of Flanders have over the years become by and large French-speaking, because of an influx of people who work in or near Brussels and wanted a cheaper/quieter place to live. The problem here is that Flanders sees this as a sort of 'annexation' and states that if they give in these communities, where will it end? Wallonia, on the other, feels that in a community that is 80% or over French-speaking it is ridiculous to hang on to laws saying only Dutch should be used because it is (on paper) a Flemish community. Clearly, they both have a point.

But there's more to it. I'm not going to explain the entire background, but suffice to say that years ago the voting system was reformed into different voting districts, with one exception: Brussel-Halle-Vilvoorde (BHV). Basically BHV is Brussels + a group of Flemish communities near Brussels where a lot of French speakers live (including those communities mentioned above). This exception was made for political compromise reasons, but now comes back to haunt everyone. The problem is that Brussels, like Flanders and Wallonia, has its own parliament and voting lists and French speakers living in Flemish communities can vote on French-speaking parties, which Dutch speakers in Wallonian communities on the other side of Brussels cannot do for Dutch-speaking parties. Flanders also fears that the fact that French-speaking politicians can amass votes in these communities may spur 'Francophonisation' there. Wallonia fears that a definit split between these communities and brussels may lead to a violation of the language rights of the many French-speakers living there and to a final disconnect between Brussels and these communities, which may become important way down the line if Belgium does fall apart.

Sigh. I can't even explain it in total, there are so many factors. Needless to say, it's ####ing ridiculous. A lot of people are very adamant about it here, but if it were up to me I'd just attach the French-speaking majority communities to Brussels once and for all and the others to Flanders. Of course, that's not likely to happen, and the recent elections have shown that not nearly everyone in Flanders feels that way. I just think it's a silly issue to struggle over in these uncertain times.

You have to realise how weird a country Belgium is to understand it better really. It's only as big as Maryland and you can drive through it in about an hour vertically, but 3 languages are spoken there - Dutch, French and some German. The 'language border' is very much a border in the sense that in most places you drive along 3 miles from an almost completely Dutch-speaking town to the next one ans everything will be in French. Surreal.

Because the country has a federal overarching government (composed of both Flemish and Wallonian elected officials) there is a delicate balance between what is done for one region and what for the other. Only some government functions are still fully federal - like Home Affairs, Migration, Defense, Economy, Work, Social Security and Health. Many other 'non-essential' departments are fully controlled by the regions seperately, like Culture, Sports, Education, etc. There is a constant battle for some departments to be split into the regions as well, with Economy and Social Security in particular. Flanders has a much stronger economy than Wallonia and a much lower unemployment %, so many Flemish see it like they are financing a weak Wallonian economy and paying their welfare and want direct control over their own profits. Wallonia, obviously, is not interested in complying with that. These are the so-called "Money transfers" Flemish nationalist politicians hammer on about.

Coincidence has it that I work at a federal governmental service in Brussels. The language at the work place is Dutch and French, and I speak French or Dutch depending on the colleague I'm talking to. Just to be clear, these are colleagues I work with every day and are on desks 2 metres away from me. By and large this doesn't pose any problems, except for some communication obstacles sometimes. Most people are reasonable and make an effort. But it has to be said that the level of Dutch of my French-speaking colleagues in very weak. In practice, I (and most others) will almost always speak French as soon as a French-speaking colleague is involved in a conversation, because they have trouble following if you go too fast. Nobody really minds where I work, but as you can imagine it does have serious potential for causing irritations for people who DO mind. Other fun facts: every official document we produce must be in Dutch and French. Or: when organising an event or meeting in Flanders, it is more or less expected the next one is held in Wallonia. Upsetting the balance on any of these things may lead to very big problems from our superiors and more importantly the ministers (who are even more acutely aware of political nuances, of course). It's walking a thin line sometimes.

I could tell you endless stories about funny, strange or even insane consequences of this situation. But I'll stop now as this had already been a huge post.


*The capital of Belgium is on paper bilingual French and Dutch. In practice, however, the majority of people in Brussels speak French.

[shag]

Wow, that's about as confusing as the partnership tax issues I am working through right now. Thanks for the info, VdB. When I finally make it over to Belgium it will give us something to talk about; I think it will all make more sense after a few Duvels.

[VdB]

After a few Duvels discussions tend to become blurry! But maybe it's for the better on subjects like that.

In the news today: the government approved the new Belgian license plate colors. The discussion took two years. One of the reasons it took so long was because the initial proposal of a plate with black letters on a yellow background (very visible) was shot down by the French-speaking politicians because it was 'too Flemish'.

Traditional Belgian license plate:



Initial new license plate proposal:

(it's a Dutch plate in the picture, but the colors would be the same)

Flag of Flanders:



So yes...it gets very silly!

In case you wondered, in the end we stuck with the original plates but with a brighter red in the letters! And it only took two years to decide.

[shag]

That's hilarious! Comforting (or scary?) to know that your government can be as absurd as ours. If everyone just had a couple of Duvels at lunch every day so much of this pointless nonsense would get smoothed out in no time.

[VdB]

Well, it's been a a year and a few months since our last federal election and there is still no new government. Strangely (or, one could say, not so strangely), nothing has changed much in day-to-day life and Belgium is even doing relatively well economically speaking. And the last proposition (from the French-speaking socialists) was shot down really hard by the Flemish nationalists (biggest party), so yeah...it's not looking like it'll be tomorrow.

At least we got a record out of it!

[VdB]

Came across this short animation which isn't all that great but does a decent job of explaining the very basics of the complicated state structure of Belgium!

[shag]

VdB, on 18 May 2012 - 12:33 AM, said:

Came across this short animation which isn't all that great but does a decent job of explaining the very basics of the complicated state structure of Belgium!

Nice. No wonder you drink so much beer.

[Mark]

Why hadn't I looked at this thread before now? Anyway...thanks for your posts and that video, VdB. Incredibly interesting, to say the least! I often joke with my girlfriend that I'm ready to pack up and move to Belgium (for my love of craft beer and cycling), but it appears that things there are every bit as strange as here in the states (albeit in a different way).

[VdB]

As long as you don't want to try and understand the finer parts of the political structure and don't engage into political discussions about the language struggles, it's really not that much of a problem to go about living your life here! It's like when we didn't have a government for almost two years (535 days) and nothing really changed much in reality for us people.