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Eurovision

#1 User is offline   VdB 

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 09:09 AM

Here's the new thread. I didn't salvage all the comments, but I couldn't bear not taking Mantus' excellent post with us to this new thread. Here we go!

QUOTE
Oh I heart Eurovision to pieces. Every year I attend this rather big party where we have scorecards and everything and where the person who gets closest to the actual results gets a prize - usually something which is highly representative of this years host country. A year ago or so I even wrote an academic paper for a course on the subject, one of the more pleasant papers (and research) I have ever had the privilege to do.

While I hate the term 'guilty pleasure', for the reasons elaborated by Chuck Klosterman, the term does fit the very particular pleasure I get from this event. But its not pure camptastic; there is also the wounded national pride (which I also try to hide), the deep gratitude one feels when we Scandinavians again send some love each other's way. While I tend to, rhetorically at least, proclaim my love for the event in a-political terms, this only concerns the first part of the event.

In the first part - the part with the musical performances - I indulge in outdatedness of the whole thing: the big dresses, the weird historical re-visits to pop-music long passé. And, of course, the BIG feelings: one of the defining things of camp after all is that it is art which presents itself so seriously, art which tries so hard, so earnest, but cannot be taken altogether serious. Susan Sontag described it as 'failed seriousness'. When Sweden enter a girl who takes a ballad way to serious (and the background music is sorta up-tempo Euro-techno, it is funny in the campy way.)

The second part, the voting part, for me is less about indulging the senses and more about interpreting and analyzing the results; explaining, as it were, the possible motivations and reasons for the various tendencies. To those who don't know, political voting has sorta been curtailed in that now, SMS-voting by the public only counts for 50%, the latter 50 being determined by professional national juries. This makes the votes less difficult to 'determine' by the geopolitically interested Eurovision fanatic.

Still, 50% is still something, and what I am wondering is whether or not Europe will embrace Greece or rather dismiss them because of what has happened, with the bailout and whatnot? I, for one, am really curious.

That's one other reason to be interested in Eurovision. Not only because it is the most fantastically silly television event known to man, but also because it - not the EU parliamentary elections - is the most obvious example of a European public sphere. This is when and where we actually reveal how we (the Europeans) feel about each other.

The big favorite for many is the German entry, yet Germany usually never get any love in Eurovision (then again, they usually send bull####, though I loved their performance last year - Europe didn't agree with me). Denmark's entry actually really catchy. Its starts out with an almost ripoff of The Police and 'Every Breath You Take' in the intro, goes into an ABBA thing in the middle part, and goes Tina Turner "" in the chores. But visually its weird; the guy is tall, has huge curls and supposedly is a big name in Eastern Europe, whist the Girl is small. Can't tell if it’s cute or just weird.

And here in a language we all understand, namely odds: http://www.online-betting-guide.co.uk/eurovision.htm


QUOTE
That's one other reason to be interested in Eurovision. Not only because it is the most fantastically silly television event known to man, but also because it - not the EU parliamentary elections - is the most obvious example of a European public sphere. This is when and where we actually reveal how we (the Europeans) feel about each other.


Yeah, I agree. In some ways, Eurovision is the pinnacle of the 'European idea'. Without wanting to sound too dramatic here, but I really do feel that the night of Eurovision is the one time every year when all of our different cultures and languages truly feel like we're part of something bigger, no matter how silly that something may be. ohmy.gif

Mantus, I wondered yesterday evening, did you ever check into voting behavior towards Israel? In some ways, I'd imagine countries like Turkey and other countries with a large muslim presence wouldn't give high votes to Israel regardless of the material (and vice versa to some extent). Then again, you can't vote against candidates in Eurovision, so a bias against certain countries may be harder to pin down than preferences (like the perennial Scandinavian back pats).
War. War never changes. The end of the world occurred pretty much as we had predicted: Too many humans, not enough space or resources to go around. The details are trivial and pointless, the reasons, as always, purely human ones.
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#2 User is offline   Mantus 

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 09:20 PM

QUOTE(VdB @ May 10 2010, 11:09 AM) View Post

Mantus, I wondered yesterday evening, did you ever check into voting behavior towards Israel? In some ways, I'd imagine countries like Turkey and other countries with a large muslim presence wouldn't give high votes to Israel regardless of the material (and vice versa to some extent). Then again, you can't vote against candidates in Eurovision, so a bias against certain countries may be harder to pin down than preferences (like the perennial Scandinavian back pats).


Interestingly, I have! Some time ago I read my way through all the academic papers that analysed Eurovision in terms of statistical tendencies and how all this could be interpreted. Most of these were concerned with locating 'blocks' - so as to determine what factors were 'key' to winning. I will return shortly with graphs, figures and what ever I can find shortly! If I remember correctly, there were some notes about who tended NOT to vote for each other also.
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#3 User is offline   Mantus 

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 10:22 PM

IPB Image

IPB Image

A fired/retired biology professor, Derec Gatherer, did this fantastic (and scary) bit of research in his spare time (study online at: http://jasss.soc.surrey.ac.uk/9/2/1.html )

They show the tendency to group together over the years, but the 'back-scratching' first becomes really important (for the end result) with the introduction of televoting/SMS-voting in 1999 and beyond. His idea is that Nations/voters group together with friends naturally, but the tendency is naturally reinforcing. Its a bad study, especially when he starts interpreting the results, but the numbers are good.


Another study, by Yair*, concludes that earlier, a large group of 'culturally similar' of Western European countries ruled supreme, typically deciding the winner (though voting was no was as overt as it was during the noughts.
IPB Image

This was just for everybody's enjoyment. More to the point, this online-study shows Israel's friends. Unfortunately, the list is not complete, but Turkey is not the country which has given Israel the least votes that would be ...... Latvia?
http://www.kolumbus.fi/jarpen/

I'll keep looking for more.






* "The Persistent Structure of Hegemony in the Eurovision Song Contest", Gad Yair, Daniel Maman, Acta Sociologica, Vol. 39, No. 3 (1996), pp. 309-325

This post has been edited by Mantus: 11 May 2010 - 10:26 PM

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#4 User is offline   VdB 

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 10:48 PM

I'm eagerly looking forward to it! helmet.gif

Interestingly, those countries most supportive of Israël all* have large Jewish communities and have been historically relatively tolerant towards them (as opposed to the Jewish communities in the former Eastern Bloc). Family ties of 'returning' jews must play an important role there. There is a big orthodox Jewish community here in Antwerp for example where I spend some of my time, and I always have the feeling that the families there constantly have relatives from Israël (and the US) over. Family ties seem very strong.


* I'm not sure about Ireland. Belgium, Luxembourg, Netherlands and France I know firsthand and I'm pretty sure about the UK.
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#5 User is offline   Burkni 

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 09:24 AM

Excellent finds, Mantus icon_up.gif
I did some slight research myself a couple of years ago but obviously nothing on that scale biggrin.gif
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#6 User is offline   VdB 

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 08:57 PM

Hey Burkni! Congrats on qualifying for the final, more than deserved! helmet.gif

I was very surprised that Belgium made it, but not unhappy. bigsmile.gif First time we survived a semi final!

Man I got Eurovision fever now. laugh.gif Bring on Saturday!! I just wished we could transfer our very wrong enthusiasm on our American board members...there's no kitsch like eurovision kitsch.
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#7 User is offline   Burkni 

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 09:01 PM

QUOTE(VdB @ May 25 2010, 08:57 PM) View Post

Hey Burkni! Congrats on qualifying for the final, more than deserved! helmet.gif

I was very surprised that Belgium made it, but not unhappy. bigsmile.gif First time we survived a semi final!

Man I got Eurovision fever now. laugh.gif Bring on Saturday!! I just wished we could transfer our very wrong enthusiasm on our American board members...there's no kitsch like eurovision kitsch.

Right back at ya dude!! You beat me to it!
Saturday here we come!

Incidentally, this was the 3rd year running that we are the last qualifier from our group ... Nailbiting suspension I tells ya ...
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#8 User is offline   The Rake 

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 08:14 AM

Congratulations guys. Quite liked the Belgian entry, and the Icelandic singer looks just how I would imagine a Valkyrie to look.

You should both trounce a very weak UK entry on Saturday.

I did catch some of the semi final and very much liked the Slovakian entry where the singer was dressed as a tree. Shame she didn't qualify.

This post has been edited by The Rake: 26 May 2010 - 08:34 AM

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#9 User is offline   Mantus 

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 10:14 AM

Congratulations to both of you. I totally got the fever as well and am eagerly awaiting tomorrow's next semi-final.
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#10 User is offline   Mantus 

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 11:11 PM

QUOTE(Mantus @ May 26 2010, 12:14 PM) View Post

Congratulations to both of you. I totally got the fever as well and am eagerly awaiting tomorrow's next semi-final.


And Denmark qualified for the final as well. Good luck gentlemen, cause you're gonna need it happy.gif

Those damn Norwegians I'm sure made the conscious decision to let Denmark be the last envelope drawn. I had already denounced the entire competition and all my fellow Europeans to hell when finally the Danish flag appeared. I love how Eurovision brings the worst out in me... makes you reflect on things.

This post has been edited by Mantus: 28 May 2010 - 07:37 AM

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#11 User is offline   Burkni 

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 09:00 AM

QUOTE(Mantus @ May 27 2010, 11:11 PM) View Post

And Denmark qualified for the final as well. Good luck gentlemen, cause you're gonna need it happy.gif

Those damn Norwegians I'm sure made the conscious decision to let Denmark be the last envelope drawn. I had already denounced the entire competition and all my fellow Europeans to hell when finally the Danish flag appeared. I love how Eurovision brings the worst out in me... makes you reflect on things.

I could certainly say the same ... I feel that their whole process of announcing the results isn't all too unbiased really, they show 2-3 acts waiting as teasers as who might get the vote ... that and the hosts mingling with some of the performers between acts (like with the guy wearing Lithuanian glimmer boxers) . Somehow feels a bit wrong to me.
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#12 User is offline   Mantus 

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 11:38 AM

QUOTE(Burkni @ May 28 2010, 11:00 AM) View Post

I could certainly say the same ... I feel that their whole process of announcing the results isn't all too unbiased really, they show 2-3 acts waiting as teasers as who might get the vote ... that and the hosts mingling with some of the performers between acts (like with the guy wearing Lithuanian glimmer boxers) . Somehow feels a bit wrong to me.


True, true. It's all about sustaining suspense, I suspect. Denmark had been hyped as potential favorite, and along with Sweden they were the biggest favourites NOT to have been announced yet. This, then, provided a little intra-Scandinavian suspense - who would go on?!?!?!?! - with tensions rising in the Scandinavian homes. I think they do this every year; keeping obvious bookie-favorites to be among the last announced, even though supposedly it's supposed to be 'random'.

But I did like the Lithuanian act, however. Especially when they took off their pants. All good, clean Eurovision fun. A shame they didn't go on to the next round.
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#13 User is offline   VdB 

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 01:16 PM

Yeah, I noticed they waited until the last name for both Iceland and Danmark while non-favorites like Moldavia were generally in the first 5 names to be annpounced. Sucks about Sweden btw, their song wasn't half bad.

The Lithuanians were ok! laugh.gif Even if they didn't qualify, they at least "got" it...either you send a real song (like last year's winner) or you send an over-the-top act that doesn't take itself seriously. There's only one thing worse than kitsch and that's kitsch that takes itself seriously. wink.gif

The big showdown Saturday...heard about 5-6 songs I really liked so far, but didn't really check out the 5 big countries' candidates yet. Belgium will probably end up somewhere in the middle of the ranking.
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#14 User is offline   The Rake 

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 01:20 PM

QUOTE(VdB @ May 28 2010, 02:16 PM) View Post

Yeah, I noticed they waited until the last name for both Iceland and Danmark while non-favorites like Moldavia were generally in the first 5 names to be annpounced. Sucks about Sweden btw, their song wasn't half bad.

The Lithuanians were ok! laugh.gif Even if they didn't qualify, they at least "got" it...either you send a real song (like last year's winner) or you send an over-the-top act that doesn't take itself seriously. There's only one thing worse than kitsch and that's kitsch that takes itself seriously. wink.gif

The big showdown Saturday...heard about 5-6 songs I really liked so far, but didn't really check out the 5 big countries' candidates yet. Belgium will probably end up somewhere in the middle of the ranking.


UK TV and radio pundits were bigging up the Belgian entry this morning, whilst making fun of the Russian entry (he has a picture of the girl he is singing about in his hand)
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#15 User is offline   Burkni 

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 01:20 PM

QUOTE(VdB @ May 28 2010, 01:16 PM) View Post

Yeah, I noticed they waited until the last name for both Iceland and Danmark while non-favorites like Moldavia were generally in the first 5 names to be annpounced. Sucks about Sweden btw, their song wasn't half bad.

The Lithuanians were ok! laugh.gif Even if they didn't qualify, they at least "got" it...either you send a real song (like last year's winner) or you send an over-the-top act that doesn't take itself seriously. There's only one thing worse than kitsch and that's kitsch that takes itself seriously. wink.gif

The big showdown Saturday...heard about 5-6 songs I really liked so far, but didn't really check out the 5 big countries' candidates yet. Belgium will probably end up somewhere in the middle of the ranking.

I think the showdown will take place in the mountains of Caucasus, with none-too friendly neighbours Azerbaijan and Armenia, and maybe Georgia, battling for the top places. (incidentally, the national broadcasting company in Azerbaijan discovered that a few votes went over the border to Armenia last year and an investigation was launched, believe it or not)
Add perennial favourites Turkey to the mix, with a random 2-3 from the Balkans (Serbia perhaps) and we have a contest on our hands!
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#16 User is offline   The Rake 

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 09:07 PM

Rake would like to be stuck in a lift with the Armenian singer. Not only is she stunning, but he could fashion a rope out of her Rapunzel like long hair to abseil to safety.

Song a bit daft though - about an apricot stone!!

First douze to the Danes

...er..and the second

This post has been edited by The Rake: 29 May 2010 - 09:26 PM

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#17 User is offline   The Rake 

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 10:13 PM

UK CAME LAST!!!! laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
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#18 User is offline   Burkni 

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 11:03 PM

QUOTE(The Rake @ May 29 2010, 09:07 PM) View Post

Rake would like to be stuck in a lift with the Armenian singer. Not only is she stunning, but he could fashion a rope out of her Rapunzel like long hair to abseil to safety.

Song a bit daft though - about an apricot stone!!

First douze to the Danes

...er..and the second

The Armenian song was excellent ... I hoped it would win!
The Apricot Stone represents the home of the singer in a very romantic way.

But a massive kudos to Germany ... that was very much deserved.
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#19 User is offline   VdB 

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Posted 30 May 2010 - 11:18 AM

laugh.gif Rake! But to be honest, that British candidate was just utter ####e...I'd rather do that act by Lithuania with the silver shorts than have to vote for that song. bigsmile.gif

Congrats to Germany!! Honestly, she didn't really stand out for me - it was a really good song, but the performance wasn't great and the accent was just awful. I mean just sing it in German, who cares? I don't like it that everyone seems to sing in English these days. sad.gif

Hey Burkni, I thought Iceland deserved better than their placing! Belgium miraculously got to 6th place. blink.gif It's actually the best result at Eurovision ever for a Flemish candidate (we take turns sending French- and Dutch-speaking candidates)! Not that it will helps us avoids the semis next year but still.

Oh and I thought the German singer was a total cutie...but only when she started speaking in German afterwards. happy.gif

The winner, for those who didn't follow the contest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Odk8hhX6VQw


The Belgian entry:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HExS9R2r-vA

Icelandic entry:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4kiVYlQMP4

Danish:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncmdX1i3KGw
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#20 User is offline   Mantus 

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Posted 30 May 2010 - 11:20 AM

QUOTE(The Rake @ May 29 2010, 11:07 PM) View Post

Rake would like to be stuck in a lift with the Armenian singer. Not only is she stunning, but he could fashion a rope out of her Rapunzel like long hair to abseil to safety.

Song a bit daft though - about an apricot stone!!


It was my favorite. I loooved the way she ended the song, emphasizing the STONE!. But yes, abosolutely stunning.
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