[D-Queued]

Perhaps others have better facility with French than I, but looks like another headline story in a big day for Americans doping?

Greenpeace: révélations sur l'affaire d'espionnage

Dave.

[frenchfry]

Perhaps others have better facility with French than I, but looks like another headline story in a big day for Americans doping?

Greenpeace: révélations sur l'affaire d'espionnage

Dave.

According to the article, it was Baker that released the information under a false name, and the information was obtained by a French spy/hacker that was also involved in spying on Greenpeace. The spy/hacker admitted to his relationship with Baker. The information on Greenpeace was discovered during the investigation into the Landis affair.

[D-Queued]

According to the article, it was Baker that released the information under a false name, and the information was obtained by a French spy/hacker that was also involved in spying on Greenpeace. The spy/hacker admitted to his relationship with Baker. The information on Greenpeace was discovered during the investigation into the Landis affair.

Thanks ff.

Is that legal in France?

Dav.

[Kiwi]

...could the FL case get any more bizarre?

What a strange footnote to the saga.

[D-Queued]

...could the FL case get any more bizarre?

What a strange footnote to the saga.

Sorry, and no offense to you Kiwi, but you didn't expect this?

Dave.

[Kiwi]

Sorry, and no offense to you Kiwi, but you didn't expect this?

Dave.

Didn't expect it, but not surprised.

The bar for 'strangeness' seems to have been put so high by FL - a yellow jersey performance, perhaps - I thought it couldn't be moved up any higher. Should I expect more revelations?

Just another one of those 'truth is stranger than fiction' moments. There sure is a lot in cycling!

(No offense taken...)

[D-Queued]

Didn't expect it, but not surprised.

The bar for 'strangeness' seems to have been put so high by FL - a yellow jersey performance, perhaps - I thought it couldn't be moved up any higher. Should I expect more revelations?

Just another one of those 'truth is stranger than fiction' moments. There sure is a lot in cycling!

(No offense taken...)

I have to admit that my surprise was more about who is apparently connected to this, than by it actually happening. Though, the apparent lack of propriety here would be consistent with an MD putting their MD on the line over a Testosterone fable.

I wonder how the malpractice premiums are shaping up?

Speaking about "Truth", seeing as he copyrighted it, d'ya think you know who is going to put this latest (real) news about Floyd up on the site?

Dave.

This post has been edited by D-Queued: 17 April 2009 - 07:07 PM

[ludwig]

Not surprising at all. I was always tempted to speculate something like this was the case but there was really no point.

[Lister Farrar]

I love the word "barbouzerie" used to describe the affaire. No idea what it means, but it just sounds right on.

[fab]

Barbouze was a slang word for the french official spies. Now it's more used with illegal spies.

Movie Les Barbouzes : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOTt-ILqrUU

[D-Queued]

...
Speaking about "Truth", seeing as he copyrighted it, d'ya think you know who is going to put this latest (real) news about Floyd up on the site?

Dave.

Apparently I am ahead, or possibly, behind myself.

I just checked, and the headline over at TBV is "CLOSED 31-DEC-2008"

This is odd, particularly given that Floyd is trying to mount a comeback, because the fat lady has definitely not sung yet and the true story is now just starting to emerge from its very dark places. While there appears to have been some sincere, albeit misguided, folks that contributed, the 'closed' sign has the echo of the Carny leaving town overnight with all your hard-earned money successfully in their pockets. If TBV was not a full part of the sideshow, it was successfully exploited by it.

The Sting is complete.

There have been some comments of concern on the recent news regarding Hamilton's latest positive regarding his previous fund raising efforts, but those efforts pale in comparison to the Floyd case. There is a long set of posts on the Floyd Forum that I made pointing out the many distortions and outright lies on the FFF site. These were not picked up by TBV, of course, but the FFF site was rewritten and modified to apparently address many of these criticisms.

Outright lying to raise money sure looked like fraudulent activity. Now, with this apparent latest news, we have yet more evidence of the ugly lengths that the Floyd campaign was willing to go to.

It would be charitable to describe this as sad. It certainly looks more like criminal activity at this point, as it did when the call was made by Will and Floyd (he was sitting right beside him) to harrass a witness.

There is definitely a very ugly side to this sport.

Dave.

This post has been edited by D-Queued: 18 April 2009 - 06:12 AM

[ludwig]

I'd like to think that Landis and his team had qualms about soliciting the money, but convinced themselves that if they didn't act as if they were innocent (including asking unwitting fans for cash) then no one would believe them. He actually admits in his book that a PR adviser told him early on it was essential to get out in public and act as if he was wrongly accused.

[D-Queued]

I'd like to think that Landis and his team had qualms about soliciting the money, but convinced themselves that if they didn't act as if they were innocent (including asking unwitting fans for cash) then no one would believe them. He actually admits in his book that a PR adviser told him early on it was essential to get out in public and act as if he was wrongly accused.

Sure, that strategy could have made sense, but was still a deception. But, taking other people's money? No, that is perptuating a fraud for the purpose taking money.

The Landis case is more like an out-of-control web of lies.

Tylenol, and now Dominos, are text-book PR cases at dealing with bad news.

Landis is text-book at how to do all of the wrong things, and how that can make it so much worse.

Dave.

[ludwig]

Sure, that strategy could have made sense, but was still a deception. But, taking other people's money? No, that is perptuating a fraud for the purpose taking money.

The Landis case is more like an out-of-control web of lies.

Tylenol, and now Dominos, are text-book PR cases at dealing with bad news.

Landis is text-book at how to do all of the wrong things, and how that can make it so much worse.

Yes, naturally from a conventional moral standpoint the whole charade was wrong and I'm sure FL regrets it in hindsight. But from a WWLD? (what would Lance do?) perspective it was probably pretty easily to rationalize the strategy.

[D-Queued]

Yes, naturally from a conventional moral standpoint the whole charade was wrong and I'm sure FL regrets it in hindsight. But from a WWLD? (what would Lance do?) perspective it was probably pretty easily to rationalize the strategy.

Interesting perspective.

Full attack mode for a shower, and the whole blood down the toilet comparison. Add in potty mouth, and I guess we know what room to expect that strategy to have developed.

Note that I am not being conclusionary here. Far from it. What we have seen is clearly the tip of the iceberg.

Dave.

[adker]

Help me out here, I do not read french, so I am trying to understand the conclusions of the article from your commentary and while I get that it was damaging I still do not know what it says. Is there an english translation or can someone fill in the blanks for me.

Thanks

[Maya]

Interesting perspective.

Full attack mode for a shower, and the whole blood down the toilet comparison. Add in potty mouth, and I guess we know what room to expect that strategy to have developed.

Note that I am not being conclusionary here. Far from it. What we have seen is clearly the tip of the iceberg.

Dave.

+1

[fab]

Help me out here, I do not read french, so I am trying to understand the conclusions of the article from your commentary and while I get that it was damaging I still do not know what it says. Is there an english translation or can someone fill in the blanks for me.

Thanks

An improved or damaged by me Google translation

The espionage case of Greenpeace, which splashes EDF started in a laboratory ... fight against doping. Revelations on pirate high-tech.

What is common between the French Agency for the fight against doping (AFLD) and Greenpeace? Normally, nothing. Except that both were victims of software hacker execuyed by a company, Kargus Consultant, which is headed by a former member of the secret service (DGSE), Thierry Lorho. L'Express revealed the "underground" of this "barbouzerie" high-tech, which has nothing to do with the old methods of tapping ...

July 2006. Shortly after his victory in the Tour de France, American cyclist Floyd Landis got a positive AAF for testosterone by the LNDD. However, on 23 October, a thunderbolt hit the same laboratory:Christiane Ayotte told LNDD responsible, Françoise Lasne, that a mysterious Norman Crepin sent an e-mail questionning the reliability of Landis's tests. This man well- informed providing confidential documents from the laboratory french!

Sensing a destabilizing attempt, Pierre Bordry, head of the AFLD, complained in November 2006. Police has discovered that Mr. Crepin identity hided a named Arnie Baker, which is the coach of Landis! By giving his own datas Baker hoped, it seems, to exonerate his rider.

FrenchFry's post was a good summary, just missed that was the results of a Police (PJ Police Judiciaire) investigation claiming the link with Arnie Baker.

[D-Queued]

An improved or damaged by me Google translation
FrenchFry's post was a good summary, just missed that was the results of a Police (PJ Police Judiciaire) investigation claiming the link with Arnie Baker.

In layman's words:

It appears that Arnie Baker* (allegedly) is claimed to have paid real money to a bad dude that was apparently provided with falsified evidence that the bad dude could try and plant on the LNDD computers. You might remember that this story did come out not long after the PR campaign started.

Now, there are other questions about who on the Floyd team might know about:
1. How to properly/usefully falsify this kind of evidence
2. Where to put such falsified evidence

That someone is unlikely to be Arnie as he had no previous work experience with any of the WADA labs.

*The same Arnie Baker that is the author of the Wiki and the PowerPoint that utilizes his MD status to profess that Floyd did not use T, and that T is useless.

Dave.

[MacRoadie]

Arnie, Floyd, and the whole Landis posse will be at the Dana Point GP on Sunday.

Just sayin...