[one-mint-julich]

Last night I saw a documentary on the doping program in E. Germany in the 1980s. Well known to many in this forum, I’m sure, but some of the details I found chilling. Goldenear keeps saying there is no evidence that steroid use is damaging to health. Tell that to some of the survivors of this program. Women with numerous health problems, including cancer. Some of these effects would be much less of a problem in men, such as the effects of increased muscle mass and workout efforts on joints, and problems were undoubtedly exacerbated by the fact that the E. Germans didn’t both monitoring the health of their athletes. There was no effort to reduce or eliminate drug use when health issues first emerged. I’m sure that male body builders taking steroids with some attention to dose and other factors are at far less risk. But at the minimum, anyone watching this program could be forgiven for thinking steroids are dangerous.

There were also psychological problems, particularly in women who became more masculine. Some of them reached the point where they avoided going out on the street, because they were mistaken for gays or transvestites, who in that culture were subjected to taunting if not worse. One of the women eventually had a sex change operation, because s/he no longer felt comfortable in a woman’s body.

What I found most horrifying about this was not the drug use per se, but the fact that the athletes were given drugs without their knowledge, let alone consent. I couldn’t help remembering that this is the same country that experimented on Jews in WWII. Here they were experimenting on their own most admired citizens. Yet very few of the doctors and administrators in charge of the program have gone to trial, and those who have have gotten light sentences. There seems to be still a great deal of denial among some of the athletes (the ones whose health was largely unaffected, of course), as well as in the public at large.

One of the ironies of this program was that to get the doctors to go along, they were given large financial rewards. The whole purpose of the program, of course, was to show the world that the Communist system was superior to the capitalist, but they had to use raw capitalist incentives to make it work, and particularly to ensure the silence of everyone.

A final lesson is for all those who complain of a career damaged or destroyed by a false positive. As I’ve pointed out here many times, that has to be balanced by the damage to careers of athletes who don’t dope. An entire generation of American and some other female swimmers saw their Olympic dreams crushed in 1976, when E. German women won 11 of the 13 events. Many of them are still bitter about that.

[Kiwi]

A while ago I read Faust's Gold: Inside The East German Doping Machine by Steven Ungerleider, which I suspect covers much of the territory from this documentary. Well worth the read for those who haven't covered this topic in depth. And, as I'm sure everyone here knows, investigating the institutionalized doping was where Werner Franke got his start.

The conclusions in the book are shocking, particularly how the athletes were simply told to take the pills that they were given with no questions asked. Doping tests were actually used not to detect the drugs but to make sure that athletes were clear before going to international competitions. The sports schools - from which Jan Ullrich was a graduate, incidentally - existed for the sole purpose of churning out world-class athletes and winning competitions. Hardly an uplifting notion of sport!

Many disgraced coaches ended up joining the coaching programmes in other countries, including China. The parallels between the East German notion of sport for state and national glory and the current Chinese approach (with perhaps a nod to some other countries) are definitely strong.

[vaunTrevi]

Last night I saw a documentary on the doping program in E. Germany in the 1980s. Well known to many in this forum, I'm sure, but some of the details I found chilling. Goldenear keeps saying there is no evidence that steroid use is damaging to health. Tell that to some of the survivors of this program. Women with numerous health problems, including cancer. Some of these effects would be much less of a problem in men, such as the effects of increased muscle mass and workout efforts on joints, and problems were undoubtedly exacerbated by the fact that the E. Germans didn't both monitoring the health of their athletes. There was no effort to reduce or eliminate drug use when health issues first emerged. I'm sure that male body builders taking steroids with some attention to dose and other factors are at far less risk. But at the minimum, anyone watching this program could be forgiven for thinking steroids are dangerous.

There were also psychological problems, particularly in women who became more masculine. Some of them reached the point where they avoided going out on the street, because they were mistaken for gays or transvestites, who in that culture were subjected to taunting if not worse. One of the women eventually had a sex change operation, because s/he no longer felt comfortable in a woman's body.

I've seen that (I think it is the same one) twice on our local PBS channel, if you it comes around on your station watch it, it will chill you to the bone. Luckily after the Berlin wall fell they were able to peruse the medical/doping records which revealed the depth of the doping program run by the state.
Unfortunately, I think the East Germans may not be the only country participating in doping programs on athletes for the greater glory of the "homeland" or to prove that their system was "superior" to other political systems... an ugly offshoot of the cold war.
Its made me feel that governments shouldn't be allowed to participate the way some have in finding talent at an early age, and building a system of raising talent in special schools from childhood through elite level competition. "National Honor" in winning Olympic medals and world championships is a hollow boast in my book, when its done with no honor or integrity at all.

[bambi]

Last night I saw a documentary on the doping program in E. Germany in the 1980s. Well known to many in this forum, I’m sure, but some of the details I found chilling. Goldenear keeps saying there is no evidence that steroid use is damaging to health. Tell that to some of the survivors of this program. Women with numerous health problems, including cancer. Some of these effects would be much less of a problem in men, such as the effects of increased muscle mass and workout efforts on joints, and problems were undoubtedly exacerbated by the fact that the E. Germans didn’t both monitoring the health of their athletes. There was no effort to reduce or eliminate drug use when health issues first emerged. I’m sure that male body builders taking steroids with some attention to dose and other factors are at far less risk. But at the minimum, anyone watching this program could be forgiven for thinking steroids are dangerous.

There were also psychological problems, particularly in women who became more masculine. Some of them reached the point where they avoided going out on the street, because they were mistaken for gays or transvestites, who in that culture were subjected to taunting if not worse. One of the women eventually had a sex change operation, because s/he no longer felt comfortable in a woman’s body.

What I found most horrifying about this was not the drug use per se, but the fact that the athletes were given drugs without their knowledge, let alone consent. I couldn’t help remembering that this is the same country that experimented on Jews in WWII. Here they were experimenting on their own most admired citizens. Yet very few of the doctors and administrators in charge of the program have gone to trial, and those who have have gotten light sentences. There seems to be still a great deal of denial among some of the athletes (the ones whose health was largely unaffected, of course), as well as in the public at large.

One of the ironies of this program was that to get the doctors to go along, they were given large financial rewards. The whole purpose of the program, of course, was to show the world that the Communist system was superior to the capitalist, but they had to use raw capitalist incentives to make it work, and particularly to ensure the silence of everyone.

A final lesson is for all those who complain of a career damaged or destroyed by a false positive. As I’ve pointed out here many times, that has to be balanced by the damage to careers of athletes who don’t dope. An entire generation of American and some other female swimmers saw their Olympic dreams crushed in 1976, when E. German women won 11 of the 13 events. Many of them are still bitter about that.

Saw this a month ago here too. Horrible.

[Surftel]

It is clear that the producers of that documentary had a bias. There has never been any proof that the East Germans doped. No positive tests, and those that did test positive were only positive because of lab screw ups.
I am sure they just achieved their athletic achievements threw hard work and genetic superiority.

[one-mint-julich]

It is clear that the producers of that documentary had a bias. There has never been any proof that the East Germans doped. No positive tests, and those that did test positive were only positive because of lab screw ups.
I am sure they just achieved their athletic achievements threw hard work and genetic superiority.

That's actually another scary thing about this program. There were a few positive tests, but very few, because they had a procedure of stopping drug administration two weeks before competition (except for testosterone, which couldn't be detected then). The positives resulted when they thought they were losing an edge in those two weeks, and desperate to regain it, continued to dope even up to the competition. But after someone got caught, the government clamped down,and made sure there were no more.

It's like Puerto and so much of the doping evidence in cycling. Most of the information came from obtaining records after the Berlin wall fell, not from testing.

Unfortunately, I think the East Germans may not be the only country participating in doping programs on athletes for the greater glory of the "homeland" or to prove that their system was "superior" to other political systems... an ugly offshoot of the cold war.

Someone posted a link about China on another thread. In fact, about ten years ago Chinese women swimmers dominated an international competition in much the same way as the E. Germans did in the late 70s and early 80s. Not to say the West doesn't do this, too, but when the government runs the show, then you get the really bad abuses, where people are forced into taking the drugs, or given them without knowing about them.

This post has been edited by one-mint-julich: 21 August 2008 - 07:07 PM

[Kiwi]

"National Honor" in winning Olympic medals and world championships is a hollow boast in my book, when its done with no honor or integrity at all.

+1

The Olympics has, in my view, gone too far down the, er, track of power, prestige, politics, and money. The vested interests around accumulating all these has turned it into a spectacle of entertainment that is less and less about actual sport. I simply refuse to be caught up in the nationalist hype surrounding it and switch off my brain as the saturation media coverage would like me to.

At least with cycling (elaborate justification looming), pro level sport bears some resemblance to the amateur level and fans can identify with it in some way. It also has a strong cultural component bound up with European and history/sociology that is interesting and broader than the sport itself.

That said, the institutionalization of doping in cycling, coupled with the much greater financial rewards available, has taken pro cycling further from 'the people', if you like, and more into the hands of big business and, if we're to believe all the stories, organized crime. In my mind, pro cycling is at a tenuous juncture where I routinely think about packing in any interest in the pro level and simply supporting local amateur events with more fervour.

[vaunTrevi]

+1

The Olympics has, in my view, gone too far down the, er, track of power, prestige, politics, and money. The vested interests around accumulating all these has turned it into a spectacle of entertainment that is less and less about actual sport. I simply refuse to be caught up in the nationalist hype surrounding it and switch off my brain as the saturation media coverage would like me to.

At least with cycling (elaborate justification looming), pro level sport bears some resemblance to the amateur level and fans can identify with it in some way. It also has a strong cultural component bound up with European and history/sociology that is interesting and broader than the sport itself.

That said, the institutionalization of doping in cycling, coupled with the much greater financial rewards available, has taken pro cycling further from 'the people', if you like, and more into the hands of big business and, if we're to believe all the stories, organized crime. In my mind, pro cycling is at a tenuous juncture where I routinely think about packing in any interest in the pro level and simply supporting local amateur events with more fervour.

I lost most of my interest and respect for the Olympics when they went pro... how anyone can claim a victory in basketball when you have pros playing against the US is pretty rediculous in my book. I just saw a story where London has earmarked 18 Billion pounds (about 36 Billion US Dollars) to put on the games in London... that makes me think that the profits could easily support an alternate olympiad amateur games.

I'll buy into the elaborate justification btw.