[Strategy]

I am reading that the leadership of the ACCPI (Italian association for riders) is proposing harsher penalties for doping.

Assuming I understood the article correctly, the proposal which will be put to the ACCPI at its next meeting, will be to permanently and immediately ban riders who are tested positive. The proposal is put forward by the chair-person Amedeo Colombo, but is supported by the vice-chair (Filippo Pozzato) and the secretary (Gianni Bugno).

The argument for increasing the penalties in this way, is the huge damage that the dopers are causing the sport. "We can't keep disappointing our fans any more. Those who don't understand what damage they are doing the sport, the sponsors, the organizers and the fans need to find another job. We have explained the rules so many times. It is enough."


The Ricco case is of course the obvious cause, but I still find it interesting to find this kind of initiative originating with the riders.

[Burkni]

And of course no word of penalizing the teams, doctors or DSs ...

[vanishingPoint]

The argument for increasing the penalties in this way, is the huge damage that the dopers are causing the sport. "We can't keep disappointing our fans any more. Those who don't understand what damage they are doing the sport, the sponsors, the organizers and the fans need to find another job. We have explained the rules so many times. It is enough."

The Ricco case is of course the obvious cause, but I still find it interesting to find this kind of initiative originating with the riders.

If there was a meaningful pre-tour poll querying fans on what active rider they would like to see brought down, I would bet it would have been Ricco. The Tour had a responsiblity at the very least, to take precautions to prevent doping before it impacts the whole industry. I believe they could have and should have stopped Ricco from participating based on testing and the depth of insider information they undoubtably possess. They can't feign ignorance.

And of course no word of penalizing the teams, doctors or DSs ...

Sponsors cross fingers and look the other way too.

[one-mint-julich]

Assuming I understood the article correctly, the proposal which will be put to the ACCPI at its next meeting, will be to permanently and immediately ban riders who are tested positive. The proposal is put forward by the chair-person Amedeo Colombo, but is supported by the vice-chair (Filippo Pozzato) and the secretary (Gianni Bugno).

Permanently? As in, for life? I might accept this idea if the tests were perfect, but since they aren't, I think it amplifies the existing element of unfairness. Some riders who are positive will test negative; we don't know what proportion, but in past years it has probably been a substantial majority. In that light, banning positives for life has an element of capriciousness. It's just bad luck that your career is over and not someone else who was also positive.

Of course that's true regardless of the penalties, but riders can come back after two years or four years. There are other problems, too. Once in a while there may be a false positive. No science can ever eradicate them completely. Again, that is tough luck, but by having a period of suspension, the potential unfairness is at least limited. And what about the cases where a rider takes a tainted supplement? Is he going to be banned for life what might have been an honest mistake, or even the fault of some manufacturer?

This is like advocating the death penalty for drunk drivers. Yes, it would greatly reduce a menace to society, undoubtedly save some lives, but the cure would be worse than the disease.

[Roadent]

Permanently? As in, for life? I might accept this idea if the tests were perfect, but since they aren't, I think it amplifies the existing element of unfairness. Some riders who are positive will test negative; we don't know what proportion, but in past years it has probably been a substantial majority. In that light, banning positives for life has an element of capriciousness. It's just bad luck that your career is over and not someone else who was also positive.

Of course that's true regardless of the penalties, but riders can come back after two years or four years. There are other problems, too. Once in a while there may be a false positive. No science can ever eradicate them completely. Again, that is tough luck, but by having a period of suspension, the potential unfairness is at least limited. And what about the cases where a rider takes a tainted supplement? Is he going to be banned for life what might have been an honest mistake, or even the fault of some manufacturer?

This is like advocating the death penalty for drunk drivers. Yes, it would greatly reduce a menace to society, undoubtedly save some lives, but the cure would be worse than the disease.

You know, while I theoretically get this argument, in reality the number of false positives we've actually seen in cycling isn't even a rounding error - has anyone really been surprised at any of the riders (or their excuses) in the last few years? And, to repeat this endlessly, it's not like drunk driving/murder etc. - riders choose to be professionals, and they choose to dope - they can choose not to. Penalizing the DS's and sponsors is another story......

[fab]

Permanently? As in, for life? I might accept this idea if the tests were perfect, but since they aren't, I think it amplifies the existing element of unfairness. Some riders who are positive will test negative; we don't know what proportion, but in past years it has probably been a substantial majority. In that light, banning positives for life has an element of capriciousness. It's just bad luck that your career is over and not someone else who was also positive.

It's possible to have a gradual punishment depending of the level of the fault. Taking part of a doping ring could be a life ban.. 4 years for EPO or blood doping... 2... 3 months for recreationnal drugs.

[bontempi]

in reality the number of false positives we've actually seen in cycling isn't even a rounding error

How do you know how many false positives there have been? Are you referring to scenarios where the B sample doesn't confirm the A?

[Luigi Daniele]

I am reading that the leadership of the ACCPI (Italian association for riders) is proposing harsher penalties for doping.

Assuming I understood the article correctly, the proposal which will be put to the ACCPI at its next meeting, will be to permanently and immediately ban riders who are tested positive. The proposal is put forward by the chair-person Amedeo Colombo, but is supported by the vice-chair (Filippo Pozzato) and the secretary (Gianni Bugno).

The argument for increasing the penalties in this way, is the huge damage that the dopers are causing the sport. "We can't keep disappointing our fans any more. Those who don't understand what damage they are doing the sport, the sponsors, the organizers and the fans need to find another job. We have explained the rules so many times. It is enough."
The Ricco case is of course the obvious cause, but I still find it interesting to find this kind of initiative originating with the riders.

This is the best news I've heard in ages.
Glad to see Italia "leading the way".
If they go through with it, huge amounts of pressure (including race exclusions if not adopted) must be brought to bear on the other countries to follow suit.

This post has been edited by Luigi Daniele: 25 July 2008 - 11:40 PM

[VdB]

Harsher penalties aren't gonna stop doping. Reduce its prevalance, perhaps, but still. Death penalties and life sentences don't bring down crime either (without wanting to wade into an ethical discussion here). There'll always be people inclined to 'break the law'.

I was discussing this issue with a few friends lately. The synthesis, if you want to call it that, was that material evidence (ie not test results but discoveries of stuff like doping in your room, transfusion equipment in your suitcase, a bloodbag in a place or time that doesn't make sense) should be punished severely, as there is little or no doubt as to the POINT or INTENT of these...attributes.

Test results, however, can suffer from side effects, false positives, etc. Punishment should also be imposed, but within certain boundaries.

I realize that it's hardly "fair" , being that the people caught with a test might be doping a lot more exuberantly than someone with a dose of EPO in his fridge. But at least you'll be nearly sure you're not imposing huge bans upon people who are -perhaps- innocent.

Takes care of the false positives, right?

[Chris E]

And of course no word of penalizing the teams, doctors or DSs ...

Some of us still believe in free will and think the decision ultimately lies with the person taking the drug.

This is the best news I've heard in ages.
Glad to see Italia "leading the way".
If they go through with it, huge amounts of pressure (including race exclusions if not adopted) must be brought to bear on the other countries to follow suit.

The other argument for all of this would be that it would encourage FL type all out defense, and would in fact protect networks within teams due to this. If penalties were lighter or reduced due to cooperation of the accused then maybe that would be a positive step as well.

[Strategy]

According to this, the new rules have been approved. In future, riders with Italian licenses who are found positive for doping can have their licenses revoked for life. The new rules will go into effect from 2009.

[Leafcake]

The FCI's (Italian Cycling Federation) press release –
Googled:

01/08/2008 19.14.24
TO FIGHT DOPING: The initiatives approved by the Federation Council with immediate effect

The Federal Board of FCI at its meeting on 31.07.2008, in reiterating its commitment in the fight against the phenomenon of doping, in relation to recent incidents which have had an effect media absolutely negative for the image of cycling, offuscando [dimming] the positive results of Federal workers in the activities of control and prevention, with significant reduction of cases of positivity in the categories youth, and generally in the non-professional, decided to adopt immediately the following actions against persons positive [test] results:
1 - Creation of a civil party in criminal proceedings that establish their dependants, or in the case of facts committed abroad, filing of the complaint lawsuit as part offended because they give rise to prosecution in Italy and subsequent constitution in the civil proceedings , Always with a view to obtaining compensation for damage caused to the Federation and the whole sports movement from such behaviour;
2 - whether inhibition for the athletes positive to a subsequent entry into national teams in relation to investigations emerged in disciplinary proceedings;
3 - initiation of disciplinary proceedings for the detection of any responsibility competition by operators sports at any level;
4 - evaluating the possibility to refuse tesseramento [license] or his replacement, in case of involvement even indirectly incidents of doping.
Meanwhile, the Federation Council hopes that membership cards and affiliates provide maximum cooperation to control bodies and disciplinary to identify and punish conduct that may encourage or lead to incidents of doping.

Il Segretario Generale The Secretary-General
Maria Cristina Gabriotti Maria Cristina Gabriotti