[Old Runner Guy]

Landis may not race again, but he's not done fighting

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/colu...tory?id=3468423

[snip]

Landis doesn't see it that way, and for that reason and a few others, we may not have seen the last of this case.

"They will never get to the end of how much I can take," Landis told ESPN.com Monday, sounding much as he used to when he was talking about what is blithely called "suffering" on the bike. "I'm not happy that I'm the person who has to take this, but I would never allow myself to be treated this way and ever give up."

[snip]

Suh said Landis' team is contemplating its legal options. One is to appeal to the Swiss Federal Tribunal, which has jurisdiction over CAS cases because CAS is based in Lausanne, Switzerland, though the court will only consider cases in which Swiss law may have been violated. Only one CAS ruling -- a case involving Argentine tennis player Guillermo Canas -- has ever been sent back to CAS by the Tribunal, and CAS essentially rubber-stamped its own decision.

The other option is to roll the dice in the U.S. court system. Young said he's not concerned about that, especially since runner Justin Gatlin's effort to have his case reviewed there was so recently rebuffed. "I'd be surprised if [Landis] did that, and my guess is if he does, it'll be a frivolous effort," Young said. "There was more opportunity to gather evidence and be heard in this case than any other doping case in history."

This post has been edited by Old Runner Guy: 01 July 2008 - 11:41 AM

[sundaymorning]

Floyd should just accept it and move on. Start training and get ready to ride the Tour of California for Rock. AEG can't keep him from racing because there won't be any open investigations to hold against him

Who is this guy getting advice from? He needs some reasonable people in his life. I guess maybe he shouldn't sign with Rock but it's too late to fess up and sign with Slipstream. If Rock actually pays attention and gets their Pro Conti license license next year he could be riding in the Giro, as Zigzagged pointed out. Zomegnan likes fancy cars and flashy things.

Seriously Floyd, leave those lawyers behind. They haven't done a damn thing for you. Stop gambling for one big score and get your sh*t back together.

[smug]

Floyd should just accept it and move on. Start training and get ready to ride the Tour of California for Rock. AEG can't keep him from racing because there won't be any open investigations to hold against him

Who is this guy getting advice from? He needs some reasonable people in his life. I guess maybe he shouldn't sign with Rock but it's too late to fess up and sign with Slipstream. If Rock actually pays attention and gets their Pro Conti license license next year he could be riding in the Giro, as Zigzagged pointed out. Zomegnan likes fancy cars and flashy things.

Seriously Floyd, leave those lawyers behind. They haven't done a damn thing for you. Stop gambling for one big score and get your sh*t back together.

The decision was so severe that he would be digging a severely deeper hole to keep this up. I can't imagine Gibson Dunn letting this much further either.

[Old Runner Guy]

The decision was so severe that he would be digging a severely deeper hole to keep this up. I can't imagine Gibson Dunn letting this much further either.

My understanding is funding is not his problem should he continue. Much of his money is not from the cycling communuity. Lots of people outside of cycling have a vested interest in "taking down" WADA so money is not the problem.

The question is does he have it in him. It appears he does based on the comments above.

This post has been edited by Old Runner Guy: 01 July 2008 - 01:38 PM

[D-Queued]

My understanding is funding is not his problem should he continue. Much of his money is not from the cycling communuity. Lots of people outside of cycling have a vested interest in "taking down" WADA so money is not the problem.

The question is does he have it in him. It appears he does based on the comments above.

Then we should hope those other people, within and outside cycling, meet their justice.

Dave.

[smug]

My understanding is funding is not his problem should he continue. Much of his money is not from the cycling communuity. Lots of people outside of cycling have a vested interest in "taking down" WADA so money is not the problem.

The question is does he have it in him. It appears he does based on the comments above.

taking down wada? now there's a noble pursuit.

[D-Queued]

taking down wada? now there's a noble pursuit.

Yup. Worked so well for that other guy.

Heck, he got off with a little fine, a vacation, and only being called a cheater and a scammer.

Dave.

[rational head]

My understanding is funding is not his problem should he continue. Much of his money is not from the cycling communuity. Lots of people outside of cycling have a vested interest in "taking down" WADA so money is not the problem.

The question is does he have it in him. It appears he does based on the comments above.

ORG, forgive me a direct question cos you seem to lead to it intentionally, and believe it's not personal because I never cared or questioned anyone's money up to this point…

Since you openly posted on this board that you contributed "substantial sums" to FFF are you one of those persons, who "are behind" and want to take WADA down? Thank you.

[Old Runner Guy]

ORG, forgive me a direct question cos you seem to lead to it intentionally, and believe it's not personal because I never cared or questioned anyone's money up to this point…

Since you openly posted on this board that you contributed "substantial sums" to FFF are you one of those persons, who "are behind" and want to take WADA down? Thank you.

Nope, I contributed well over a year ago and none since. I'm glad I did, because of my belief in Floyd and the injustice of the system <(edited out personal attack>). I have no interest in WADA and I'm not affilated with sports, was never a professional athlete.

That said, their are others (think other sports organizations and professional leagues) that do not want to be "forced" to submit to WADA. So, they would like to see it weakened which would give them the political cover to ignore them.

Make no mistake, WADA busting star athletes in cycling has cost the sports tens of millions and has done little to improve the intergrity of the sport. It's been a lose/lose situation. No one else wants to go down the cycling route and WADA takes them there.

In my opinion this case long ago stopped being about whether Floyd doped on stage 17 and became a political lightening rod. I read yesterday's decision as exactly that, a political document to protect the WADA/CAS role in sports, not about the truth.
----------------
Moderator note: Kudos for your courage upholding an unpopular opinion but let's keep it civil. Thank you.

This post has been edited by rational head: 01 July 2008 - 06:41 PM

[shag]

Floyd should just accept it and move on. Start training and get ready to ride the Tour of California for Rock. AEG can't keep him from racing because there won't be any open investigations to hold against him

Who is this guy getting advice from? He needs some reasonable people in his life. I guess maybe he shouldn't sign with Rock but it's too late to fess up and sign with Slipstream. If Rock actually pays attention and gets their Pro Conti license license next year he could be riding in the Giro, as Zigzagged pointed out. Zomegnan likes fancy cars and flashy things.

Seriously Floyd, leave those lawyers behind. They haven't done a damn thing for you. Stop gambling for one big score and get your sh*t back together.

I agree 100%. Even if (for the sake of argument) the lab screwed up and Landis got shafted, it's time to move on, start getting the base miles, and look forward to a nice season with Michael Ball's boys.

[Old Runner Guy]

I agree 100%. Even if (for the sake of argument) the lab screwed up and Landis got shafted, it's time to move on, start getting the base miles, and look forward to a nice season with Michael Ball's boys.

He can do that anyway. If he sues is Swiss or American courts, he is still eligible to start competing again as of Janaury 30 ,2009. Their decision was made, they cannot change it.

However, to get a license, he still has to pay $100k. If he elects to not pay, what can WADA do?. Yes WADA can sue for their money, but they would have to spend $100k to get it (it legality would have to be argued in court. As I noted in another post, the CAS cannot hand out punitive damages, only actual damages. A round number sure looks like punitive damages). If he retires from the sport, WADA risks looking like a bully going after a defeated man that gave up and wants to be left alone. So, I believe they only get his money if he wants a new license.

This post has been edited by Old Runner Guy: 01 July 2008 - 02:53 PM

[one-mint-julich]

Make no mistake, WADA busting star athletes in cycling has cost the sports tens of millions and has done little to improve the intergrity of the sport. It's been a lose/lose situation. No one else wants to go down the cycling route and WADA takes them there.

That's sort of like saying having police has cost American taxpayers billions of dollars, yet crime continues at about the same pace as ever. People are still getting killed and robbed and raped, while someone my uncle Charlie knows was wrongly incarcerated. At least he says he's innocent, and I believe him, because everyone knows the police screw up from time to time. So let's get rid of the police entirely. Think of the money society would save.

I have said it so many times on this forum it's like a broken record: for every false positive--which Floyd might be but which is very far from being proven so--there are dozens of false negatives. Is your goal a WADA that never ever wrongly convicts an athlete, where any positive can be known with 100% certainty to be genuine? Then, yes, get rid of WADA, because no drug testing program ever has or ever will meet that criterion.

One option, favored by people like Goldenear, is to have all or at least many PES legalized. If sports want to go down that road, I won't complain. it would create a lot of problems, which have been discussed here before, but it would also solve a lot of others. But vast majorities seem to want clean athletes. I personally don't know any way to do that without some anti-doping organization, do you, ORG?

Why don't you lay out your plans for us? After spending a third of the GNP of a small country, Floyd and his backers who want to take WADA down finally get the decision they want. Floyd is vindicated, sort of. What happens next? WADA is dissolved? I doubt it. WADA is reformed? If all the negative press WADA received in the past two years wasn't enough to result in the kind of reforms you seem to envision, why would a final successful appeal make any difference? If Floyd really cares so much about what other athletes have to face, why doesn't he abandon his appeals and work through other more sensible channels to reform WADA? If you don't know what these channels are, I suggest you talk to some political activists.

I agree with Floyd's supporters that that $100K fine was punitive. I thought it was over the top, and had little or nothing to do with justice, as opposed to revenge. But trying to take WADA down is also motivated by vengeance rather than justice. If you really want to reform WADA, you don't continue to appeal this case. Up to a point, the appeal process has helped expose problems with WADA, but these problems are now very well known to anyone who's interested. Beyond this point, the appeal is irrelevant.

[D-Queued]

edited out personal attack

Yes, I am laughing at you. Not at Floyd.

Why the personal attack?

But, it beats what appears to be a blatant threat.

My understanding is funding is not his problem should he continue. Much of his money is not from the cycling communuity. Lots of people outside of cycling have a vested interest in "taking down" WADA so money is not the problem.

The question is does he have it in him. It appears he does based on the comments above.

Why are you so threatened?

Dave.

This post has been edited by rational head: 01 July 2008 - 06:42 PM

[filipo]

Make no mistake, WADA busting star athletes in cycling has cost the sports tens of millions and has done little to improve the intergrity of the sport. It's been a lose/lose situation. No one else wants to go down the cycling route and WADA takes them there.

OMJ's response puts it much more eloquently than I'm able to. But can I also point out that your basic equation (star athletes getting busted = lose/lose situation) is ignoring the most recent facts -- that the teams with the most thorough anti-doping programs are the ones lining up big new sponsors. You think after Floyd, Rasmussen et al. that any of this would have happened, that these leaves would have turned on their own? Explain to me how big new international sponsors are "lose/lose" or is somehow damaging the integrity of the sport -- especially a sport that has shot itself in the foot so often as to have a mere puddle of integrity left in the first place.

As well, why do you think "no one else" wants to go down the cycling route? Do you *really* think it's because of this so-called integrity?

[N.B.O.L.]

I think several of you missed the most important quote in the ESPN article.

"I hope people who are interested in bicycle racing forget about me by the end of the week and turn on the television and watch the Tour, and give those guys the respect and attention they deserve," Landis said.

[formerlyfit]

Nope, I contributed well over a year ago and none since. I'm glad I did, because of my belief in Floyd and the injustice of the system (D-Q, keep your hate posts to yourself and just be happy to you get to celebrate in the misery of others). I have no interest in WADA and I'm not affilated with sports, was never a professional athlete.

That said, their are others (think other sports organizations and professional leagues) that do not want to be "forced" to submit to WADA. So, they would like to see it weakened which would give them the political cover to ignore them.

Make no mistake, WADA busting star athletes in cycling has cost the sports tens of millions and has done little to improve the intergrity of the sport. It's been a lose/lose situation. No one else wants to go down the cycling route and WADA takes them there.

In my opinion this case long ago stopped being about whether Floyd doped on stage 17 and became a political lightening rod. I read yesterday's decision as exactly that, a political document to protect the WADA/CAS role in sports, not about the truth.

I've being criticising you for seeing conspiracies in USADA, but now I'm seeing the conspiracies in Landis's side. When will this madness stop

[Double R]

Floyd should just accept it and move on. Start training and get ready to ride the Tour of California for Rock. AEG can't keep him from racing because there won't be any open investigations to hold against him

Who is this guy getting advice from? He needs some reasonable people in his life. I guess maybe he shouldn't sign with Rock but it's too late to fess up and sign with Slipstream. If Rock actually pays attention and gets their Pro Conti license license next year he could be riding in the Giro, as Zigzagged pointed out. Zomegnan likes fancy cars and flashy things.

Seriously Floyd, leave those lawyers behind. They haven't done a damn thing for you. Stop gambling for one big score and get your sh*t back together.

+1

[MacRoadie]

[formerlyfit]

priceless!

[MacRoadie]

It's always unfortunate when those who cheat or commit crimes are found guilty and are punished for their misdeeds. Truly, we should all empathize and be more respectful of their misfortune.