Jump to content


Photo

Translation of Dr Ferrari needed


  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1 RADUSA

RADUSA

    Assistant Mechanic

  • Members
  • 290 posts

Posted 14 November 2007 - 01:14 AM

http://www.53x12.com...e=article&id=68

I have read this and admit I get the main point but not much else. Is it me (probably) or just an italian writing in English?

#2 floridacyclist

floridacyclist

    Soigneur

  • Members
  • 649 posts

Posted 14 November 2007 - 06:21 AM

QUOTE(RADUSA @ Nov 14 2007, 04:14 AM) View Post

http://www.53x12.com...e=article&id=68

I have read this and admit I get the main point but not much else. Is it me (probably) or just an italian writing in English?


Ferrari, as always, is at the forefront of the doping wars, and is opening the next front -- cheating in broad daylight. This is the proverbial final frontier. If you can throw up enough "reasonable doubt" and rationalization that a doped athlete can publish his blood values for all the world to see and those values are stripped of the ability to nail the athlete, then you can cheat in broad daylight. Taunt the anti-doping contingent. Wave the blood values that everyone knows represent doping, but get away with it. Ferrari and Rasmussen, even if not formally collaborating, are doing a coordinated song and dance. With Contador chirping in a little chorus in support.

Meet the new boss ... same as the old boss.



#3 Roadent

Roadent

    Novice

  • Members
  • 1,115 posts
  • Location:Canukistan
  • Interests:Guess...uh, let's see...Cycling?

Posted 14 November 2007 - 09:00 AM

Holy crap, florida, you are right! That is so brazen I'm almost laughing... This sounds just the the fractal-based analysis of ffloyd's blood/testosterone/cortisone levels - just keep turning the focus up and up on every discreet detail and you can't even see the forest, much less descern the trees.... Ferrari has thrown down the guantlet with this one - just try to catch me now: I'll throw so much statistical sophistry back at you that you'll run away.... no need for CampyBob to translate this.... ohmy.gif
smoke>fire

#4 colaradojogger

colaradojogger

    Spectator

  • Members
  • 27 posts

Posted 14 November 2007 - 09:17 AM

campybob is still needed to bring out the subtleties in michele's argument.

#5 CAMPYBOB

CAMPYBOB

    Cat-3

  • Members
  • 1,873 posts

Posted 14 November 2007 - 11:54 AM

rad, it is almost never the reader's fault with these incomprehensible transliterations from euroese into engrish. the fault can usually be found in the lack of mad skillz of the translator.

fortunately...i'm here to help.

although very scientific and technical in nature, i can translate a few key sentences to enhance the intended meaning of the author (damnit jim! i'm an engineer, not a blood doctor!)

How big should the variation of Hb or Hct be in an athlete in order to be able to affirm that the values of that parameter have significantly changed?

how much manipulation of the (patented on three continents!) ferrari engine can i accomplish before the machines at LNDD start blowing fuses?

This means that 10% of the subjects can manifest bigger variations without these being significant change.

lance was born with a larger heart, bigger lungs, more dedication and thanks to the modern miracle of wind tunnel testing and weight savings of riding without ballz did not need to dope to achieve high hamocrit levels. simply put, some folks are just plain better than the doperz. usually they are either the boy-next-door or mennonite-next-door american types...with money...lots of money. weird, huh? go figure.

Without forgetting that 10% of the subjects are excluded from this statistic valuation, and can show bigger variations without significant change.

the 10% includes all of my clients...who, coincidentally, fork over 10% to me. remember folks...statistics can be made to say just about anything. and on the DPF you can bet your last vial of EPO they will.

Simple training determines an increase in reticulocytes (Eur. J. Appl. Physiol., 1988; 57: 490-498) as well as the exposition to natural or simulated altitude.

proving, once again, lance and floyd trained harder than the euroese speaking riders. no euro rider ever had a tv commercial made that showed his extreme dedication of training in the rain...with a grimace. (note: a facial grimace should never be confused with a facial smirk...especially at the finish of a tour of france stage as this could be construed as solid evidence of doping or latent alcohol abuse.).

i trust this has cleared the muddy waters somewhat.






#6 floridacyclist

floridacyclist

    Soigneur

  • Members
  • 649 posts

Posted 14 November 2007 - 01:15 PM

QUOTE(CAMPYBOB @ Nov 14 2007, 02:54 PM) View Post

rad, it is almost never the reader's fault with these incomprehensible transliterations from euroese into engrish. the fault can usually be found in the lack of mad skillz of the translator.

fortunately...i'm here to help.

Bravo.

If any of these cycling publications had a clue, they'd snap you up and hire you to write for them. If nothing else, VN could add it as a complement to O'Grady.

Edited by floridacyclist, 14 November 2007 - 01:15 PM.


#7 lili

lili

    Ominous Blueberry Muffin

  • Members
  • 49 posts

Posted 14 November 2007 - 05:40 PM

some commentary on Ferrari's article is available here


#8 Hombre

Hombre

    Cat-1

  • Members
  • 3,627 posts

Posted 14 November 2007 - 06:38 PM

Well, I am afraid that Ferrari is largely correct.
Lets recall something, he has done more in the field tests or REAL athletes both doped and non-doped than anyone else in the world. He KNOWS their hematocrits their LT and watches them do the 10% climb and measures their LT in the field.

He has a huge knowledge base.
If you're in the middle of a stage race and want to know how you are doing and send him your hematocrits and he watches the tapes of Pantani climbing against you, or Kloden against Floyd or whatever, he knows what your hematocrit can and cannot do without help.
He's the devil in the details.
UCI should pay him a couple million euros and hire him, pay him more than he could make and ask him how to fix the situation

Most journals now require authors to publish their financial and research conflicts.
Ferrari's is obvious if we assume he helps riders dope and get away with it.
The problem is, as he points out, that Ashenden et al also have HUGE career and financial conflicts.

As for peer review, do you think real hematologists trying to cure aplastic anemia or myelodysplastic syndromes treat Ashenden as anything but a #####? He is a sideshow curiosity in real science and is doing nothing of lasting value. If you pick up any issues of the New England Journal of Medicine and see what a joke that has become and how many just plain wrong things they publish every article and year, trust me, Ashenden is just a guy trying to make a buck off some tests he cooks up. None of these tests would last a year in the real world. They're a joke. Marion Jones, Iban Mayo need I go on???

Edited by Hombre, 14 November 2007 - 06:40 PM.


#9 Strategy

Strategy

    Elite

  • Members
  • 4,668 posts

Posted 15 November 2007 - 03:59 AM

QUOTE(Hombre @ Nov 15 2007, 03:38 AM) View Post

Well, I am afraid that Ferrari is largely correct.


laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

That was even more fun than CampyBob's excellent translation.


#10 Guest_RTT_*

Guest_RTT_*
  • Guests

Posted 16 November 2007 - 06:15 AM

QUOTE(Hombre @ Nov 14 2007, 09:38 PM) View Post

Well, I am afraid that Ferrari is largely correct.
Lets recall something, he has done more in the field tests or REAL athletes both doped and non-doped than anyone else in the world. He KNOWS their hematocrits their LT and watches them do the 10% climb and measures their LT in the field.

He has a huge knowledge base.
If you're in the middle of a stage race and want to know how you are doing and send him your hematocrits and he watches the tapes of Pantani climbing against you, or Kloden against Floyd or whatever, he knows what your hematocrit can and cannot do without help.
He's the devil in the details.
UCI should pay him a couple million euros and hire him, pay him more than he could make and ask him how to fix the situation

Most journals now require authors to publish their financial and research conflicts.
Ferrari's is obvious if we assume he helps riders dope and get away with it.
The problem is, as he points out, that Ashenden et al also have HUGE career and financial conflicts.

As for peer review, do you think real hematologists trying to cure aplastic anemia or myelodysplastic syndromes treat Ashenden as anything but a #####? He is a sideshow curiosity in real science and is doing nothing of lasting value. If you pick up any issues of the New England Journal of Medicine and see what a joke that has become and how many just plain wrong things they publish every article and year, trust me, Ashenden is just a guy trying to make a buck off some tests he cooks up. None of these tests would last a year in the real world. They're a joke. Marion Jones, Iban Mayo need I go on???



Hombre, you bring up some valid points here... helmet.gif




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users