[thalasso]

"I don't understand why he made these confessions eleven years after. But he is old enough and he will know better than anybody else why he did it."

[ludwig]

"I don't want to detract from what Riis did, but my impression is that he did not overwhelm me, that it was me who lost the Tour. I did all I could to be in front and at the end I did not reach this goal. Riis and many others were stronger, and if there was anything irregular or not then it is not my affair"

It's almost as if he hasn't accepted Riis has confessed and wishes there was some way Riis could take it back.

That said, at least he isn't claiming he was cheated out of a 6th Tour by upstart dopers.

[thalasso]

"I don't want to detract from what Riis did, but my impression is that he did not overwhelm me, that it was me who lost the Tour. I did all I could to be in front and at the end I did not reach this goal. Riis and many others were stronger, and if there was anything irregular or not then it is not my affair"

It's almost as if he hasn't accepted Riis has confessed and wishes there was some way Riis could take it back.

That said, at least he isn't claiming he was cheated out of a 6th Tour by upstart dopers.

The sadness of his comments relies upon what he's possibly hiding.
Other than that, I don't understand why he made those silly comments.

[ChrisH]

It sounds like Indurain believes that riders wins Tours, not that drugs win Tours.

[MJtje]

It's almost as if he hasn't accepted Riis has confessed and wishes there was some way Riis could take it back.

Read the last article of Kimmage about Kelly.....these guys are dumbfounded riders are telling these stories. Did they dope? Of course, but one doesn't speak about it.......that's the "old" generation..

Times seem to change.....

AND let's be fair, wouldn't you feel a little uncomfortable when a TDF winner says he doped to win a TDF, especially since you won the TDF 5 times......? Can't imagine recent TDF winners (indurain, ullrich, armstrong) to be very happy with the comments from Riss.....

What was Indurain supposed to say? Nothing what any ex-TDF winner says will please the public......

Sunday times Paul Kimmage article: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/mor...icle1845407.ece

This post has been edited by MJtje: 29 May 2007 - 05:36 PM

[Velo]

It sounds like Indurain believes that riders wins Tours, not that drugs win Tours.

As is becoming patently clear, it's riders on drugs who win Tours.

[frenchfry]

It sounds like Indurain believes that riders wins Tours, not that drugs win Tours.

It sounds more like Indurain is stuck in the dope and deny omerta time warp.

I don't think that breath of fresh air has made it to Spain yet, it's moving slowly across Northern Europe before heading south. The forecast is that it won't ever reach Texas - too bad.

[Strategy]

Lars Werge wrote a list of the past 10 winners of the Tour de France for Ekstra Bladet in Denmark along with allegations a few days back (comments in [] brackets are mine).

---

Floyd Landis (2006) USA – tested positive for testoterone on the 17. stage. Case not yet finished

Lance Armstrong (1999-2005) USA – four positive EPO tests from the 1999 tour, not convicted

Marco Pantani (1998) Italy – excluded for doping, died 2004

Jan Ullrich (1997) Germany – tested positive in 2002, involved in Operacion Puerto 2006, almost all of Telekom has admitted doping in the 1990s

Bjarne Riis (1996) Danmark – admitted doping use 1993 - 1998.

Miguel Indurain (1991-1995) Spain – Team Banesto under strong suspicion of systematic doping, but no concrete evidence found. The team used the doping doctor Francesco Conconi, who received 100,000 Euro a year to treat Indurian and his helpers. [ Echavarri went so far as to try to hire Conconi, Casoni et al as the official team doctors of Banesto in January 1996. ]

Greg Lemond (1986, 1989-1990) USA – no allegations or evidence known [A rarity in Tour de France context]

Pedro Delgado (1988) Spain – positive doping test during the Tour (probecinid), but not convicted [ Jørn Mader, journalist, claims Delgado admitted doping to him in a private conversation ]

Stephen Roche (1987) Ireland – Kimmage claims that Roche used doping; Roche has never sued Kimmage to refute the claim. [ Roche was also a subject of the Conconi case ]

Bernard Hinault (1978-1979, 1981-1982, 1985) France – refused to be tested for doping in 1981, has several times talked about the necessity of doping

---

Depressing stuff. If Werge is correct that Banesto paid Conconi for services, though, Indurain can hardly be expected to be making a big fuss about Riis.

[amifan]

It sounds more like Indurain is stuck in the dope and deny omerta time warp.

I don't think that breath of fresh air has made it to Spain yet, it's moving slowly across Northern Europe before heading south. The forecast is that it won't ever reach Texas - too bad.

[thalasso]

It sounds like Indurain believes that riders wins Tours, not that drugs win Tours.

Wake up buddy. It sounds like

"We all knew that, why talk about it now? We all rode under the
same conditions"

[OAR]

Lars Werge wrote a list of the past 10 winners of the Tour de France for Ekstra Bladet in Denmark along with allegations a few days back (comments in [] brackets are mine).

---

Floyd Landis (2006) USA – tested positive for testoterone on the 17. stage. Case not yet finished

Lance Armstrong (1999-2005) USA – four positive EPO tests from the 1999 tour, not convicted

Marco Pantani (1998) Italy – excluded for doping, died 2004

Jan Ullrich (1997) Germany – tested positive in 2002, involved in Operacion Puerto 2006, almost all of Telekom has admitted doping in the 1990s

Bjarne Riis (1996) Danmark – admitted doping use 1993 - 1998.

Miguel Indurain (1991-1995) Spain – Team Banesto under strong suspicion of systematic doping, but no concrete evidence found. The team used the doping doctor Francesco Conconi, who received 100,000 Euro a year to treat Indurian and his helpers. [ Echavarri went so far as to try to hire Conconi, Casoni et al as the official team doctors of Banesto in January 1996. ]

Greg Lemond (1986, 1989-1990) USA – no allegations or evidence known [A rarity in Tour de France context]

Pedro Delgado (1988) Spain – positive doping test during the Tour (probecinid), but not convicted [ Jørn Mader, journalist, claims Delgado admitted doping to him in a private conversation ]

Stephen Roche (1987) Ireland – Kimmage claims that Roche used doping; Roche has never sued Kimmage to refute the claim. [ Roche was also a subject of the Conconi case ]

Bernard Hinault (1978-1979, 1981-1982, 1985) France – refused to be tested for doping in 1981, has several times talked about the necessity of doping

---

Depressing stuff. If Werge is correct that Banesto paid Conconi for services, though, Indurain can hardly be expected to be making a big fuss about Riis.

Nice list.

IMO cloud hangs around GL also.

But he must have missed all this due to the timing, when doping only began when he left the peloton.

[zekeydekey]

It sounds like Indurain believes that riders wins Tours, not that drugs win Tours.

That would be one way of stating it.

Seems to me the only thing to glean from his comments is the rather obvious fact that he considers not to have been cheated, meaning only one thing. The playing field was even between him and those he considered to be his rivals.

Zero surprise.

IMO cloud hangs around GL also.

Ridiculous. Explain why. I've been following the sport for 30 years, and have never heard one person in the sport make this claim. I'm sure your revelations will be newsworthy.

[sixpence]

[quote name='Strategy' date='May 29 2007, 05:11 PM' post='73873']
Lars Werge wrote a list of the past 10 winners of the Tour de France for Ekstra Bladet in Denmark along with allegations a few days back (comments in [] brackets are mine).
---
Jan Ullrich (1997) Germany – tested positive in 2002, involved in Operacion Puerto 2006, almost all of Telekom has admitted doping in the 1990s
---

In the interests of the record let's remind Mr. Werge that Ullrich's 2002 positive (his only actual positive) was for ecstasy, a party drug taken at a disco during a period when he was rehabilitating a knee injury and not racing.

[wheelschmuck]

When Bernard Tapie pulled La Vie Claire's cycling sponsorship he said one of the main reasons was because he had reached a point where he could only be sure that Steve Bauer and Greg Lemond were clean. It was 87 or 88 and he had Hinault on that team.

Take it or leave it. Since I like Lemond I have chosen to make that the ultimate pronouncement on his integrity.

[My Opinion_El Paso TX]

That would be one way of stating it.

Seems to me the only thing to glean from his comments is the rather obvious fact that he considers not to have been cheated, meaning only one thing. The playing field was even between him and those he considered to be his rivals.

Zero surprise.
Ridiculous. Explain why. I've been following the sport for 30 years, and have never heard one person in the sport make this claim. I'm sure your revelations will be newsworthy.

Actually E'Lquipe made several accusations about dopping against Greg Lemond from the time that he won his first TDF. And he strongly denied any use of ilegal drugs.

Cheers Everyone

[Maya]

Actually E'Lquipe made several accusations about dopping against Greg Lemond from the time that he won his first TDF. And he strongly denied any use of ilegal drugs.

Cheers Everyone

i'm afraid that is simply not true. l'equipe never made such allegations.

I lived in europe for all of his career and afterwards and bought l'equipe religiously (at great expense!) even when I moved to another continent. I have never seen such allegations made by l'equipe or any other publication for that matter, in fact they have always been very supportive of lemond.

also: le monde newspaper made a list of tour contenders throughout history and lemond and mottet were two of the very few listed that had simply no innuendo or allegation against them.

also: l'equipe and le monde often go to lemond to ask him his opinion knowing and trusting his stance on doping (he is ironically revered over there for just that). Just recently he commented on Riis in L'equipe and one snippet that was not translated in reports that i read in english is that he thought "Riis showed a lot of courage". Not exactly the "bitter" rider some would have it.

also: despite the wishes of some here who would to see america's "other" champion also tarnished, it just hasn't happened. Look, you all know that I support lemond. i am not blinded. i realize that something might come up in the future that would change my feelings. but it hasn't yet. nothing has. in fact, the opposite. and he is the ONLY tour champion to speak out. No one owns him, as he said. and that goes for anyone being able to say he doped. even the omerta can't find anything to tarnish his anti-doping stance-- and you can be sure they'd love to-- and a certain vindictive person who promised 10 witnesses, and would have surely produced them if he could, has come up with zippo, nada.

I find it a shame that some of the people (dare i call them fans) here, this site itself and most (if not all) of the moderators choose to denigrate lemond, make unfounded accusations (which are never deleted or edited) when history looks right now to be vindicating him completely.

cheers.

This post has been edited by Maya: 30 May 2007 - 02:21 AM

[zekeydekey]

Actually E'Lquipe made several accusations about dopping against Greg Lemond from the time that he won his first TDF. And he strongly denied any use of ilegal drugs.

Cheers Everyone

Do elaborate.

Again, when it comes to LeMond, empty accusations and vague references to exactly nothing.

What you do inevitably (as on this thread) hear is people coming out and saying that they thought he was clean. Eddy B, his coach early on, being yet another prime example.

This post has been edited by zekeydekey: 30 May 2007 - 01:44 AM

[D-Queued]

i'm afraid that is simply not true. l'equipe never made such allegations.

cheers.

ps. le monde newspaper also made a list of tour contenders throughout history and lemond and mottet were two of the very few listed that had simply no innuendo or allegation against them.

You misread. That was E'lquipe, the weekly rag of outer mongolia, and it was the national sport of dopping. Though you might confuse it with dopping the ball, it more closely resembles milking a yak while riding it.

Dave.