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Under 23's

#221 User is offline   Jakob 

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Posted 02 August 2008 - 01:33 PM

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This post has been edited by Jakob: 02 June 2012 - 12:50 AM

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#222 User is offline   Gamblor 

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Posted 02 August 2008 - 03:03 PM

QUOTE(Jakob @ Aug 2 2008, 01:33 PM) View Post

Next rider added.

When my team will be complete (And there is still a good way to go yet :-) ), I aim to have it as well balanced national-wise as possible. The same can be said about rider-repertoires btw, I want to have it as well balanced as possible.

A season is long, and I want to be competitive from spring to autumn, year in and year out. That way I will never end up getting bored during the year either.

And more importantly I want to be judged by the amount of boy-wonders I have scouted onto my team, contra the amount of no good flops, who never made it past, "promising".

I want the "Hit" percentage to be as high as possible. It will be very funny to follow our riders over the next many years to come.

I have no wish what so ever to be compelled to drag up standard phrases like: "Hey you forgot that he won Stage-5 in Tour of Namibia in 2013, and he rode the last 40kilometers solo as well!!!!!", that’s so just not a quality stamp :-), I try to set the bar a tad higher than that.



My next rider has been added too now.

I can only agree btw. to aim for a team with every kind of rider and nationality so it can make results all year long. And with 50 riders that should be possible...

And yes I also aim to have a lot of future stars on my team, and hopefully only a few flops and I feel confident that riders from my team will dominate both classics and grand tours in the future. Im sure that will be the case for your team as well, and for sure we will also see some great future results from the 2 other teams of 28 riders..

Also it will be quite interesting to see how high a percentage of our riders that will have a dopingsentence in 5 years. Hopefully the number of stars is bigger.
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#223 User is offline   Jakob 

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 01:30 PM

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#224 User is offline   Jakob 

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 03:47 PM

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#225 User is offline   Jakob 

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 03:53 PM

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#226 User is offline   Jakob 

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Posted 11 August 2008 - 02:10 PM

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#227 User is offline   Gamblor 

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Posted 12 August 2008 - 07:12 PM


46. Fabio Felline, 29/03/1990. (In my opinion the best and most complete rider on the Italian Junior scene at the moment. Has several offers laying on the table for next year, where he will make the jump over to the U/23 ranks. One of the teams, who are very interested in him, is the prestigious U.C.Bergamasca squad.).

Wins:

Top-10´s:
[/quote]


Now it's my turn to say I wanted him, a great talent you got there for sure. However I have now just added another young and complete italian talent instead
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#228 User is offline   Jakob 

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 12:47 PM

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#229 User is offline   Jakob 

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 12:56 PM

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#230 User is offline   Gamblor 

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 06:48 PM

QUOTE(Jakob @ Aug 25 2008, 12:56 PM) View Post

Giro della Valle d'Aosta 2008.

Hardest Elite/U-23 race on the entire calendar.

Race website and stage profiles can be found here.
http://www.girovalledaosta.it/default.asp?...008&lang=IT
26/8 Pollein - Cogne 114 km. Stage-1

Difficulties : Cat-1 climb Cerellaz (5,8 km at 8% - 1253m above sea-level), Mountain-Top Finish at Cat-1 climb to Cogne (19,5 km at 4,7% finishing in 1547m above sea-level).
27/8 Arvier - Cervinia 134 km. Stage-2

Difficulties : Cat-1 climb Saint Pantaleon (16,4 km at 7,2% - 1647m above sea-level), Mountain-Top Finish at Cat-1 climb to Cervinia (18,9 km at 5,2 % finishing in 2009m above sea-level).
28/8 Valtournenche - Forte di Bard 138 km. Stage-3

Difficulties : Cat-2 climb Perloz (5,5 km at 7% - 729m above sea-level), Cat-1 Col de Arlaz (7,5 km at 9% - 1036m above sea-level), Cat-1 climb Col Tze Core (9,1 km at 8,6% the last 3 km to the top at 12% - 1607m above sea-level), Col de Joux (7km at 7% 1646m above sea-level), the finish into Forte di Bard is on a small hill (1,5 km at 8% at 475m).
29/8 Pont Saint Martin - Morgex 153 km. Stage-4

Difficulties : Cat-1 climb Col San Carlo (10,5 km at 9,8% - 1951m above sea-level).
30/8 Sallanches - Ville La Grand 144 km. Stage-5

Difficulties : 4 category-2 climbs. Col de Chatillon (745m), Chez Besson (925m), Col de Terramont (1085m) and Col de Saxel (975m).
31/8 Ville La Grand - Ville La Grand 88 km. Stage-6

Difficulties : 2 category-2 climbs. Pellonex (705m), Col de Perret (965m) and the Cat-1 climb to Col de Cou (1116m above sea-level), 40kilometers from the finish.

Startlist here :
http://www.ciclismoweb.net/index.php?optio...84&Itemid=2



A very interesting race indeed, and a very interesting field.

I would have liked a time trial besides all the mountainstages to give my guys Malori and Marycs a better chance against your armada of climbers but no matter what it will be a very interesting race and the winner will most likely be a rider with a great future, unless a "veteran" like for instance Luca Gasparini should win it as I might fear.

From my team I particularly hope my young guys Cecchinel and Lombardi will do well, just as well as I expect solid rides from Vedel Kvist and Bakelandts, but I guess they will have a tough time keeping up with your guys like Mancuso, Malacarne, Locatelli and Poels.

Also I look forward to follow riders like the once "supertalent-marked" Maxim Belkov who seems a bit faded, but could get right back in the picture, the climber Enrico Zen, who propably want to show of why he has just been signed by Navigara or the very talented climber Fabio Duarte, who could also be a candidate for overall victory if he is on topform.

Anyways I guess my team can live with not winning this race following the recent victory in GP Tell from Timofey Kritskey and the domination in the very important spanish amateur stagerace Vuelta Palencia, where my nr. 1 pick in the draft Arturo Mora today crushed the field in the time trial and now has a very good chance of a great overall victory, with Angel Madrazo also looking to finish on the podium. Also good performances from your guys Amador and Higinio Fernandez (the latter impressing also in the time trial finishing 2. and also looking set for a great career as a stageracer) (and Rafael Valls who made up for a poor overall performance with a fine stagewin) but so much more sweeter with Moras victory if he can hold on the last stage.
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#231 User is offline   Jakob 

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Posted 26 August 2008 - 07:51 PM

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#232 User is offline   Jakob 

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 05:26 PM

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#233 User is offline   Jakob 

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Posted 31 August 2008 - 02:56 PM

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#234 User is offline   Jakob 

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Posted 31 August 2008 - 06:24 PM

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#235 User is offline   Forstoppelse 

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Posted 31 August 2008 - 08:09 PM

QUOTE(Jakob @ Aug 31 2008, 06:24 PM) View Post

Together with G. Bravo, E. Sanz, I. Izagirre (Little brother of Gorka) and Markel Anton (Cousin to Igor Anton) he has been the most prominent 1989´er in Spain this season.


We're a couple of Euskaltel-fans who are a bit nervous that Azpiru's lack of connections with Madariaga could mean that Gari Bravo won't go to Euskaltel after his U23-years. Still, if he wins the Bizkaiko Bira and takes a couple of stagewins in two years, I don't think - or hope - they'll just stand and say no. Seguros Bilbao, just like Azpiru, doesn't have a connection with Euskaltel but they still tried to sign Intxausti so I think that if Mini-Anton shows enough talent, he'll be a future orange. Ion Izagirre and Noel Martin are both on Euskaltel-affiliated teams and Enrique Sanz is a Navarrese, as far as I know, so all in all it looks good for us oranges cool.gif tongue.gif
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#236 User is offline   Jakob 

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 12:36 PM

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#237 User is offline   Jakob 

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 04:19 PM

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#238 User is offline   Gamblor 

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 11:05 PM

Very strong team you have ended up with Jakob, but I'm quite satisfied myself. My final team is:
(note we decided to allow one more switcgh, where Jakob will change Davide Malacarne, so I have taken him on to my team instaed of E. Alafaci)


1. Angel Madrazo 30/7 1988

Wins: stage Circuito Montanes 2.2

Top 10s:

3. Overall VUELTA PALENCIA **
3. 3. 5. 6. and 8. stages VUELTA PALENCIA
2. XX MEMORIAL AVELINO CAMACHO
8. Overall Circuioto MOntanes 2.2
5. overall BIZKAIKO BIRA
2. stage 4 and 10 stage 1 BIZKAIKO BIRA
2. spanish u23 tt championship
10. MEMORIAL ANGEL MANTECON CORRALES DE BUELNA
6. stage 3 VUELTA CICICLISTA ISLA TENERIFE


2. Arturo Mora Ortiz, 24/3 1987

Wins: Spanish u23 championship TT
stage 5 + Overall VUELTA PALENCIA ***

Top 10s: 7. stage Circuito Montanes 2.2
9+3+6 stages VUELTA PALENCIA


3. Miguel Angel Lucena 02/01 1990

Wins: 2 stages and the overall GC in Vuelta A Besaya 2.1 JR ***

Top 10s:
3. stages 3A and 4 in Vuelta A Besaya 2.1 JR
3. stage 2b + 10 stage 2a + 5 stage 3 CICLISTA CIUDAD DE VALLADOLID


4. Victor Cabedo Cardo 15/6 1989

Wins:
Top 10s: 4. spanish u23 tt championship
8. stage vuelta a toledo


5. Luis Guillermo Mas Bonet 15/1 1989

Wins:
Top 10s: 5. overall Vuelta A Toledo,
5. 5. and 8. stages Vuelta a Toledo

Time now for another very young italian talent, very strong in the time trials and with a background in cyclecross he has huge potential



6. Adriano Malori 28/1 1988


Wins:
*** World Championships u23 Time Trial ***
Italian u23 tt-championship
U23 Time Trial European Championships
Due Giorni Marchigiana - 1.2
TROFEO CITTA' DI CASTELFIDARDO

Top 10s: 7. GIRO DELLE VALLI ARETINE
3. MEMORIAL DAVIDE FARDELLI (CRONOMETRO INDIVIDUALE)
3. G.P.FOLIGNANO
8. G.P.COLLI ROVESCALESI
3. G.P. EZIO DEL ROSSO
9. MEM.VITTIME DEL VAJONT


7. Ivan Rovny 30/9 1987

Wins:
Top 10s:

8. Diego Ullissi 15/7 1989

Wins:
Giro della Provincia Biella

Top 10s:
5. TROFEO ENZO SACCHI
6. COPPA GUINIGI

9. Michal Kwiatkowski, 2/6 1990

Wins: Junior Time Trial European Championships
Junor Time Trial WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS
Top 10s: 9. Junior Road Race European Championships

10. Timofey Kritskey, 24/1 1987

Wins: GP TELL, stage 1 + Overall ***
Top 10s: 2. stage 2 and 3. stage 3 GP Tell
2. U23 Time Trial European Championships,
3. U23 Road Race Trial European Championships
8. Châteauroux Classic de l'Indre Trophée Fenioux - 1.1


11.. Jacobo Guarnieri 14/8 1987

Wins: G.P.CITTA' DI VERBANIA
TROFEO MARMORTREPPEN

Top 10s:
2. G.P.RIVAROLO DEL RE
2. COPPA SAN VITO

12. Jonathan Camargo 21/7 1988

Wins:
Top 10s:

13. Johan Le Bon 3/10 1990

Wins: stage 1 Ronde des Vallées - 1.1 MJU
Top 10s: 3. stage 1, 10. stage 2 and 3. overall Kroz Istru / Tour d'Istrie - 2.Ncup (MJ)

14. Jaroslaw Marycz, 30/7 17/4 1987

Wins: Polish u23 time trial championship,
GRAN PREMIO INDA - TROFEO ARAS FRATTINI
MEMORIAL P.FORNERO
Top 10s: 7. G.P.CITTA' DI VERBANIA
3. Grand Prix Cristal Energie (1.2)
9. TROFEO BASTIANELLI
4. Gran Premio Capodarco 1.2
4. GP CAPODARCO
9. Gara Montappone "Marini Silvano Cappelli Sportivi" - 1.2
9. GARA MILIONARIA


15. Francesco Manuel Bongiorno 1/9 1990

Wins: stage 3. GIRO DELLA LUNIGIANA

Top 10s: 8. GP CITTA' DI PIETRASANTA
5. overall GIRO DELLA LUNIGIANA
7. stage 2 GIRO DELLA LUNIGIANA
2. TROFEO COMMERCIO INDUSTRIA ARTIGIANATO
3. MEMORIAL PAOLO BATIGNANI

16. Juan Jose Lobato Del Valle 29/12 1988

Wins: la prueba de Plencia
Top 10s: 9. MEMORIAL ANGEL MANTECON CORRALES DE BUELN
8. XX MEMORIAL AVELINO CAMACHO

17. Jesus Herrada Lopez 26/7 1990

Wins:
stage 1 Kroz Istru / Tour d'Istrie nations cup
stage 2 VUELTA CICLISTA A TALAVERA

Top 10s:


18. Egor Silin 25/6 1988

Wins: G.P.CITTA' DI FELINO
G.P.COLLI ROVESCALESI
TROFEO FILTRI MP - 14 TROFEO GLAVANICA IVO

Top 10s:
7. U23 World Championship road race
6. PICCOLO GIRO DI LOMBARDIA
2. Gara Montappone "Marini Silvano Cappelli Sportivi" - 1.2
5. LOMBARDIA TOUR
5. TROFEO MARCO RUSCONI

19. Giorgio Cecchinel 24/6 1989

Wins:
Top 10s: 7. place Trofeo Erboristeria
4. S.ANNA D'ALFAEDO


20. Mattia Cattaneo 25/10 1990

Wins: GP PIAN CAMUNO
TROFEO EMILIO PAGANESSI

Top 10s: 8. overall Giorni Orobica
3. stage 3 GIRO DELLA LUNIGIANA
2. TROFEO DON BOSCO
9. Borgo a Buggiano
9. COPPA LINARI
3. TROFEO BIGIO L'OSTER
8. overall GIRO DELLA LUNIGIANA


21. Sascha Modolo 19/6 1987


Wins: G.P.CEMENTI ZILLO
G.P.INDUSTRIA CUOIO E PELLI (NAZIONALE)
Top 10s: 2. TROFEO CITTA' DI CONEGLIANO
2. CIRCUITO DELL'ASSUNTA
3. Giro delle Valli Aretine - 1.2
4. stage 2 GIRO VALLE CUNEESI
8. G.P.SPORTIVI DI POGGIANA
6. TROFEO SPORTIVI DI BRIGA
3. TROFEO MARMORTREPPEN
2. G.P.COLLI ROVESCALESI
2. COPPA COMUNE DI COLLECCHIO (NAZIONALE)
2. TROFEO MARCO RUSCONI
4. Giro del Canavese - 1.2 (U23)
10. MEM.VITTIME DEL VAJONT

22. Enrico Barbin 4/3 1990

Wins: SERIATE - VIGOLO
Top 10s: 6. TROFEO EMILIO PAGANESSI

23. Antonj Orsani 12/2 1991

Wins:
Top 10s: 5. stage 4, 3. stage 2, 3. stage 3 and 3 overall TRITTICO VENETO

24. Jan Bakelants 14/02 1986


Wins: Flèche Ardennaise, Tour de la Province de Liège overall + stage 6 and stage 4
stage 5 and overall TOUR L'AVENIR ****

Top 10s:
9. stage 1, 3. stage 2, 2. stage 3 and 5 in Tour de la Province de Liège
4. overall and 6. 6. and 7. on stages Tour des Pyrénées - 2.2
9. stage 6 and 10 stage 8 Tour de l'Avenir - 2.Ncup

25. Salvador Gonzalvez, 17/7 1992

Wins:
Top 10s: 5. and 8. stages VUELTA AL BAJO ARAGON

26. Damiano Caruso 12/10 1987

Wins:
Top 10s:
9. overall Tour de l'Avenir - 2.Ncup
3 stage 1 and 6 stage 8 Tour de l'Avenir - 2.Ncup
5. Bassano Montegrappa,
2. Overall + 2. stage 4. and 3. stage 2. and 8. stge 5 in GIRO VALLE CUNEESI
3. G.P.CHIANTI COLLINE D'ELSA
6. TROFEO ENZO SACCHI
6. Giro del Canavese - 1.2 (U23)
10. U23 World Championship road race
8. G.P. EZIO DEL ROSSO

27. Juan Carlos (Gerardo) Rienda Segura 5/4 1990

Wins:

Top 10:
6. stage 1 VOLTA CICLISTA IVAJ

28. Domenique Nerz 25/8 1989

Wins:
Top 10s:


29. Arnoud Jouffroy 21/2 1990


Wins:
Top 10s:


30. Sergio-Luis Henao Montoya, 10/12 1987

Wins:
Top 10s:


31. Rafael Serrano Fernandez 15/7 1987

Wins:
Top 10s: 7. Spanish senior TT Championship,
5. U23 Time Trial European Championships


32. John Degenkolb 7/1 1989


Wins: U23-Bundesliga-Rennen in Velbert
*** OVERALL BUNDESLIGA ***

Top 10s:

3. *** U23 World Championship road race ***
7. German u23 road race championship
5. german u23 time trail championship
6. Erzgebirgs-Rundfahrt


33. Alberto Petitto, 27/6 1991

Wins:
stage 2 + overall Giro di Basilicata - 2.1 (MJ

Top 10s:

6. TROFEO COMMERCIO INDUSTRIA ARTIGIANATO
6. GRAN PREMIO MEDRI CASALINGHI
8. Trofeo Pedale Bresciano
9. stage 3Giro di Basilicata - 2.1 (MJ



34. Eric Pedrosa Ramal 10/3 1990

Wins:
Top 10s:
3. Overall + 4. stage 1 + 4 stage 2 + 2. stage 3 + 6 stage 4 VOLTA CICLISTA IVAJ


35. Colin Walczak 24/4 1990

Wins:
Trofeo Luciano Rossi
MEMORIAL LEONARDO MASSARO

Top 10s:
3. TROFEO COMMERCIO INDUSTRIA ARTIGIANATO
7. stage 2 and 10. overall Po Stajerski - 2.1
6. stage 1 GIRO DELLA LUNIGIANA

36. Pedro Macia Rivas 26/3 1990


Wins:
Top 10s:
4. overall + 4. stage 1 + 3 stage 2a + 8 stage 2b CICLISTA CIUDAD DE VALLADOLID


37. Kristjan Koren 25/11 1986

Wins:
Top 10s:
2. stage 0 + 10 stage 5 Tour de l'Avenir - 2.Ncup
7. u23 World Championships time trial
2. Slovenian u23 road race championship,
10. U23 Time Trial European Championships,
6. U23 Road Race Trial European Championships
3. Tour de Rijke - 1.1


38. Carlos Galviz, 27/10 1989

Wins:
Top "11"s: 3. stage 9 Vuelta Ciclista a Venezuela - 2.2
11. overall - Vuelta Ciclista a Venezuela - 2.2

39. Omar Lombardi 16/9 1989

Wins:
Top 10s:
5. PICCOLO GIRO DELL'EMILIA
8. MEMORIAL DAVIDE FARDELLI (CRONOMETRO INDIVIDUALE)


40. Davide Malacarne 11/7 1987

Wins:
Top 10s:


41. Rui-Alberto Costa 5/10 1986

Wins:

Top 10s:
2. overall Tour de l'Avenir - 2.Ncup **
3. stage 6 + 3 stage 8 + 6 stage 4 + 7 stage 0 + 8 stage 7 Tour de l'Avenir - 2.Ncup
5. U23 World Championship road race
8. u23 World Championships time trial


42. Marcel Kittel 11/5 1988

Wins: MEMORIAL DAVIDE FARDELLI (TT)
Top 10s: 4. german u23 time trail championship


43. Vitaly Buts, 24/10 1986

Wins:
Top 10s: 2. in M.O. Consorzio Marmisti Valpantena - Stallavena,
2. in M.O.PAGANI LANDONI
6. LOMBARDIA TOUR
3. TROFEO RAFFAELE MARCOLI
3. TROFEO PAMA PREF.
3. TROFEO S.C.MARCALLO - 15 TROFEO CASONE
5. Trofeo Lampre


44. Dennis Van Winden 2/12 1987


Wins:
Top 10s:
9. U23 World Championship road race
10. GP de la Somme - 1.1
3. Dutch u23 road race championship
5 stage 0 Tour de l'Avenir - 2.Ncup

45. Thomas Vedel-Kvist 18/8 1987

Wins: stage Tour De Liege, stage 2 Tour de la Province de Liège,
Top 10s: 3. overall Tour de la Province de Liège, 5. stage 6 and 3


46. Thomas De Gendt 6/11 1986

Wins:
Top 10s:

47. Jose Luis Cano Losa 28/4 1988


Wins:
Top 10s: 9. spanish u23 road race championship
4. stage Vuelta A Toledo
4. stage 5 VUELTA CICICLISTA ISLA TENERIFE



48. Massimo Colledan 17/8 1990

Wins:
Top 10s: 2. stage 4 QUARTA TAPPA - TRITTICO VENETO
6. MEMORIAL DAVIDE FARDELLI
2. stage 4 - TRITTICO VENETO


49. Nikita Novikov 10/11 1989

Wins:
Top 10s:


50. Raymond Kreder 26/11 1989

Wins:
Top 10s:

This post has been edited by Gamblor: 08 October 2008 - 09:08 PM

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#239 User is offline   Jakob 

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Posted 04 September 2008 - 06:17 PM

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This post has been edited by Jakob: 02 June 2012 - 12:53 AM

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#240 User is offline   Gamblor 

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Posted 04 September 2008 - 10:57 PM

QUOTE(Jakob @ Sep 4 2008, 06:17 PM) View Post

Tour L'Avenir starts tomorrow.

Although the parcours is nothing compared to (Giro Valle d'Aosta), it must still be regarded as the hardest edition of the race in recent years.

They start off with a 7.5km prologue.

Other than that, 4small uphill finishes, a 21kilometere long time-trail, combined with a real mountain-stage ending on top of the category-1 climb to Guzet-Niege (6.5km at 7,6%) provides the main difficulties in this years edition.

Gamblor you mentioned to me yesterday, that it would a nice double (After his overall victory in GP Tell), if Timofey Kritskey could bag this one up as well, but do you really believe he is in with a chance? Honestly I think he will fall short on the mountain-stage, since it’s not really his terrain at all. Of course if he holds a sufficient lead after the long TT, he might be able to defend himself, but again I personally don’t believe in overall glory for him here, I think it’s simply too hard a route for him.

You have other good candidates though, and Diego Ulissi will take the start tomorrow anyway (Despite being listed as a reserve earlier), so it will be mighty interesting to see how he handles himself.

I have Tejay Van Garderen, Marcel Wyss, Jarlinson Pantano, Guillaume Bonnafond, Rasmus Guldhammer, Cyril Gautier, Stefano Pirazzi and Coen Vermeltfoort riding myself, and I fully expect some good results coming from them throughout the race.

A shame Jonas Aaen Jorgensen got sick and had to be replaced. He was in with some solid chances of grabbing a stage-win, especially on those small uphill cotes.

An even bigger shame that Gatis Smukulis won’t be riding anyway, he belonged to the favourite circle.

Still if I have to name a favourite myself, it must be Rein Taaramae who tops my list. But all in all its a very very open race this year.



I can only agree Taaramae must be the big favourite for this years L'Avenir, with his perfect carateristics for the race, even if the route is a bit tame there will be many interesting riders to follow

You are propably right that the route is to hard for Kritskey, but hoping is always allowed and he can both tt very well and defend him self in the climbs almost as well as other former winners like Bak and Calzati, compared two whom he is much stronger in the tt. But I guess your candidates are also in with a good chance. Van Garderen should be a safe bet for at least the top 10 (once again, great rider you have spotted there), Wyss should do goos with his good TT and Bonnafond will be amongst the favorites for the last climbingstage, where also your climbingsensation Andrey Amador I guess will be the biggest favourite of all.

Great to see Ulissi also riding. He has been a bit quiet lately but I think he will finish of the season strongly, and besides him always solid Costa and Koren plus Caruso, Bakelandts and Van Winden shpuld also do well. I hope the last two can take one of the stages finishing with a short climb. And that will only be more likely now you miss Aaen.

From the riders not picked by our teams it should also be quite interesting to follow Nicki Oestergaard who would have been a safe bet last year before he lost his motivation and stopped his career. Nice to see him back and it seems like he is starting to come back to form lately. He could do well.

And then ofcourse also (rumourede CSC-Saxobank signing Patrick Greatsch could do well with his brilliant TT,a nd then it will also be interesting to follow all those riders we didn't pick and see if we have to feel bad...
THis goes for me for for instance for climber Riccardo Van Der Velde and strong allround rider Maciej Paterski, who is also a likeliky stagewinner

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