[OAR]

Cheers to you and if your ever in Houston Texas, look up the Saint Arnolds Brewery. We can share some Beers, it is the best Ale in Texas. (Note: this invitation is not open to Smug and Chris E. hahaha) Not really if any regular on this board happens to venture into the HUMID HELL of Houston Texas feel free to PM me and I will show you the best Ale houses to cool off at, not to mention some Tex Mex and S. Ray Vaughn for easy listening.

I hope your hip is recovering well. Also I am rooting for you to prove your innocence. I guess as you can tell the cycling public basically is no different than any other. They can make up their minds based on the media information. I hope all works out in your favor.

[Bill Hue]

The legal stuff I am not sure about but it is an arbitration with the AAA in the standard format of three arbitrators.

If you are going to be critical of the lab, is anyone up in Montreal willing to help you out? Do you think the numbers/methods are so goofed up as to be invalid? If so, having someone from another certified lab testify will be better than critizing from a lawyer's view-point.

This post has been edited by Bill Hue: 08 October 2006 - 01:59 AM

[smug]

you should try to get bill on that panel. bill is a judge from wisconsin, sympathetic to american cyclists, and willing to slip across the border to help.

[floyd]

If you are going to be critical of the lab, is anyone up in Montreal willing to help you out? Do you think the numbers/methods are so goofed up as to be invalid? If so, having someone from another certified lad testify will be better than critising from a lawyer's view-point.

I doubt that I will get help from any WADA labs, but the wrong numbers and dates and the changed numbers are a good indication of careless work. This points to the big picture where you will see that it was not a positive result at all under WADAs criteria.

[Bill Hue]

you should try to get bill on that panel. bill is a judge from wisconsin, sympathetic to american cyclists, and willing to slip across the border to help.

I'm sympathetic to all cyclists!! I think they lack in power against their managment, against the media and against the UCI/WADA. I've suggested a strong union would help-especially for the "worker" guys.

[OAR]

I'm sympathetic to all cyclists!! I think they lack in power against their managment, against the media and against the UCI/WADA. I've suggested a strong union would help-especially for the "worker" guys.

Hey I said this before on another thread and was told by VeloFlash that one already exist. If it is a union then it sucks compared to other sports unions especially in the USA. If you had something like the MLB or NFL it would be very useful.

[cyclenut]

Floyd, can you elaborate (yet) on the wrong date issue--was the positive test reported for July 20th but this date did not match the test forms themselves when you finally were allowed to view them?

[floyd]

Floyd, can you elaborate (yet) on the wrong date issue--was the positive test reported for July 20th but this date did not match the test forms themselves when you finally were allowed to view them?

Thursday of next week I will put up everything that I have on my home page and I am sure you guys will find every mistake, even things we haven't noticed.

[Bill Hue]

And what about the notion that they acually tested the "B" sample on July 28?, not Aug 2? Everyone from Pound to Greg LaMond seemed to know the results of the "B" test before you got a chance to see the sample tested, consistant with your right so to do.

[Surftel]

Floyd,

First, I should say it is hard to see a good guy like you go thru this mess. There are many twisted people in pro cycling who I wouldn't mind seeing get nailed.

I lived and rode in Europe for 6 years, during a time when the discussion of performance enhancers and recovery "therapy" was much more open then it is now. It was almost like a big puzzle everyone was trying to figure out.

While I was never a big deal I have good friends who made it, lived in Girona and France, rode on the top teams, and succumbed to the pressure of the crazy science experiment that is pro cycling. Once they returned they had similar attitudes. At first they would ignore all questions related to doping, later they would say that yes they had seen things but they stayed away from it....then later it would be "Sometimes you need to make choices if you are going to continue in the sport". Finally it would all come out. The Girona Doctors, pharmacys, the pressure, all with a huge sense of embarassment. They had rationalized it by telling themselves it was natural, it was for recoevery, it was something the body produced anyways. They also really wanted to tell their story, but knew it would end all chance of working in the industry. One of them told their story, anonymously, to Velonews and the NYT, but that is as far as it went to breaking the silence.

So I guess my questions would be this

-Living in Girona and riding on Phonak, a team with multiple doping positives, did you ever see anything that made you question if others were riding clean?

-Your initial claim that you have a naturally high testosterone level and you would prove it to the world. Later it was said the "epi was too low" Which story are you going with here and what's the plausible explanation for the low level of epi?

- Athletes have been using testosterone with impunity for quite some time. The secret is they are supposed to be administered equal doses of testosterone and synthetic epi to maintain the appropriate ratio while still receiving all the benefits of the drug, but beating the test. As long as the ratio stays the same, the test does not come back positive and is never tested for the presence of synthetic testosterone. Has WADA told your team that they will conduct an isotope test on any remaining samples from other stages so it may confirm/deny the presence of synthetic testosterone in an otherwise negative sample? I would assume you would want this done as the lack of synthetic in your sample from the ITT would certainly help your case.

I am sure I have many more but this is a start

[floyd]

And what about the notion that they acually tested the "B" sample on July 28?, not Aug 2? Everyone from Pound to Greg LaMond seemed to know the results of the "B" test before you got a chance to see the sample tested, consistant with your right so to do.

There were a lot of rumors, first, I was not there to witness the test as that would serve no purpose. I had an expert, Dr.Debouer, who understands what is supposed to be done. As far as being notified, I found out from the press via the press release by the UCI. We had asked for professional courtesy and to be notified so that we could prepare a statement, but were not given a response.

I gotta go to dinner, be back tomorrow.

[Bill Hue]

Thanks Floyd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[vaunTrevi]

Do you know if the hearing is subject to the rules of evidence?

Bill Hue,
Councilor I have a question for you (legally speaking of course)
I was told some time ago that you couldn't sign away your rights in a contract, and if you did the contract was invalid.
Would this apply to pro riders and union forming activities?
Thanks Bill.

[Bill Hue]

Bill Hue,
Councilor I have a question for you (legally speaking of course)
I was told some time ago that you couldn't sign away your rights in a contract, and if you did the contract was invalid.
Would this apply to pro riders and union forming activities?
Thanks Bill.

Actually you can! For example, the tickets at a major league sporting events have a waiver on the back, waiving the team's liability if you get hit by a ball or something. You can agree to sue a common transportation carrier only where they reside, even though you might otherwise be able to sue them in your state. Many waivers are declared invalid if they violate public policy- like a covenant not to compete that is unreasonable as to geography or length, or a contract clause promising to pay attornys fees to the other party (even if they lose!).
You can waive rights in collective bargaining agreements. Presumedly, you get something in return, so the "trade" is allowed..... like collecting blood/urine to test for drugs without due process.
Collective bargaining right are covered in the US by the National Labor Relations ACT - a federal law. I don't know anything about international laws in that area and I'm barely versed in our federal laws!


My spelling is terrible!

This post has been edited by Bill Hue: 08 October 2006 - 02:55 AM

[vaunTrevi]

Actually you can! For example, the tickets at a major league sporting events have a waiver on the back, waiving the team's liability if you get hit by a ball or something. You can agree to sue a common transportation carrier only where they reside, even though you might otherwise be able to sue them in your state. Many waivers are declared invalid if they violate public policy- like a covenant not to compete that is unreasonable as to geography or length, or a contract clause promising to pay attornys fees to the other party (even if they lose!).
You can waive rights in collective bargaining agreements. Presumedly, you get something in return, so the "trade" is allowed..... like collecting blood/urine to test for drugs without due process.
Collective bargaining right are covered in the US by the National Labor Relations ACT - a federal law. I don't know anything about international laws in that area and I'm barely versed in our federal laws!
My spelling is terrible!

Thanks Bill,
I can't imagine the UCI winning a public battle over riders having contracts cancelled, licenses revoked or other sanctions if enough pro riders chose to form a union.
I think the UCI would be smart to support the forming of a riders union.
Seems to me, that not being able to form a union is a lot like signing a non compete agreement... in the past I've been given them to sign and simply refused as I knew in California that the agreements are illegal. Janna simply looked up the law and we passed it on to the people involved... you would think that the company lawyer would know better (and they well may have )
V

[Bill Hue]

Thanks Bill,
I can't imagine the UCI winning a public battle over riders having contracts cancelled, licenses revoked or other sanctions if enough pro riders chose to form a union.
I think the UCI would be smart to support the forming of a riders union.
Seems to me, that not being able to form a union is a lot like signing a non compete agreement... in the past I've been given them to sign and simply refused as I knew in California that the agreements are illegal. Janna simply looked up the law and we passed it on to the people involved... you would think that the company lawyer would know better (and they well may have )
V

Many times people sign the form and are intimidated to act upon the thing they waived......... so if you get 1 guy not suing because you put it in the papers knowing the court wouldn't enforce it-as a company, you have saved some money. I've told my wife to sign the papers when I suspected that the non-compete wouldn't be enforceable.
In the US-a company firing workers for exercising union forming rights would be in serious trouble and I agree the public relations nightmare for the UCI would be enormous.

[Steve in ATL]

Thursday of next week I will put up everything that I have on my home page and I am sure you guys will find every mistake, even things we haven't noticed.

That would be the power of the internet - and Army of Davids, Massive Multiple Processing.

[adapa]

That would be the power of the internet - and Army of Davids, Massive Multiple Processing.

Kinda the opposite of SETI? So it'd be STI, the Search for Terrestrial Intelligence?

But seriously, glad the hearing might be open, looking forward to seeing the doc's next thursday, and am amazed at the weak union.
I gotta think the sport would be in a much better place if the riders had a union watching their backs.

This post has been edited by adapa: 08 October 2006 - 04:23 AM